2 New Cummins engines DOA

[Coolslice]

I don't know if this is post worthy or not, but I figured I'd tell you guys.



A friend of mine works at the local Dodge dealership and last week he called me to say that a brand new CTD had gone out for a test drive and had locked up the engine at approx 17 miles. They didn't know what was wrong with it, and DC said they would take an engine off the line to replace this one and the dealership was told to send the bad engine to DC...



Well today I get another call. . Another brand new CTD took a dump on the lot today as it was being moved about. He said upon hearing this, DC has now changed their mind about sending the first blown engine back and now they want the Cummins tech at the dealership to tear it down to see what the problem is. I plan on trying to get out there when he opens it up to see what the problem might be. Obviously, I will post the findings (if there are any) asap. Have any of you guys heard anything about a possible run of bad engines? One engine doesn't strike me as being strange, but 2 in 2 weeks caught my attention. I guess on the bright side, it's happening right away instead of later on down the road like the "other" brand :-laf .

 

[Matt400]

Kinda od it was the same dealer.

 

[PHeadings]

sugar in the tanks? filled them with gas?

 

[rbattelle]

He said upon hearing this, DC has now changed their mind about sending the first blown engine back and now they want the Cummins tech at the dealership to tear it down to see what the problem is.

Coolslice, this story sounded fine to me right up until this point. Now, I'm not doubting your accuracy in reporting what you were told, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that DC would suddenly decide they want the dealer to tear down a Cummins himself and report to them what the problem was. The story sounds fine, except for this part... why the sudden decision to make the dealer tear it apart just because 2 engines have crapped out there? I find it much more likely that they would tell the dealer to diagnose the truck and if he doesn't find anything wrong with that, then send the engine untouched to DC for disassembly.



-Ryan

 

[Coolslice]

sugar in the tanks? filled them with gas?

Cali,



I am thinking along those lines myself. . Maybe an angry customer seeking revenge?? I don't know what the exact effects of sugar or gas are, but I know it's not good.



Ryan,

I may have very well made some reporting errors :-laf . Both times he has called while on the job, so the conversations are short and to the point. I was more interested in what happened then what DC wanted to do about it. I thought it sounded likely that they would not want a busy tech who is already several days out to waste his time on one bad engine in an unsold truck, but then with a second one they decided they wanted some answers before a stream of expensive engines start flowing in and out of the dealership. DC/ STAR calls the shots, and it should come as no surprise that they make some strange calls from time to time.



At any rate, I don't want this to turn into what people think is a BS story. I debated on not posting this until I had ALL the info. Bottom line is that 2 new CTD engines ceased up in less than 2 weeks, and I want to find out what happened so I can let everyone here know. Hopefully I will get some more details today and put an end to the speculation. .

 

[Coolslice]

Update- I just went out to the dealship. The second truck did not actually blow a motor, but did have atleast 1 injector stuck wide open. The first truck had spun a bearing, and according to the tech someone just messed up at Cummins. It will receive a brand new engine. Sorry for the false alarm.

 

[GAdams4570]

Update- I just went out to the dealship. The second truck did not actually blow a motor, but did have atleast 1 injector stuck wide open. The first truck had spun a bearing, and according to the tech someone just messed up at Cummins. It will receive a brand new engine. Sorry for the false alarm.

I am considering buying a Dodge diesel truck but have no experience with the diesel motor. I know that it uses the heat from the compression to ignite the fuel (I think that is correct) so I'm wondering. . If the injector gets stuck can you shut the thing down easliy? I'm trying to do my homework before I make the plunge. Thanks! Greg

 

[Coolslice]

I am considering buying a Dodge diesel truck but have no experience with the diesel motor. I know that it uses the heat from the compression to ignite the fuel (I think that is correct) so I'm wondering. . If the injector gets stuck can you shut the thing down easliy? I'm trying to do my homework before I make the plunge. Thanks! Greg

Greg, I probably shouldn't answer that based on my limited knowledge myself, but I don't see why it wouldn't shut off easily with the turn of the key. In the case of this truck, it wouldn't even run so I doubt it running out of control is too likely with a stuck injector. .

 

[rbattelle]

As far as one stuck injector causing a runaway (that's where a diesel just keeps running and can't be shut off), I agree with Coolslice that it's highly unlikey. In fact, even if all 6 injectors stuck open I doubt it would cause a runaway condition.



Stuck open injectors will, however, quickly destroy the engine.



-Ryan

 

[ewcmr2]

sugar in the tanks? filled them with gas?

Sugar isn't soluble in fuel so the worst thing it would do is clog the filter.



Eric

 

[KennethS]

Sugar isn't soluble in fuel so the worst thing it would do is clog the filter.



Eric

We at our dealership had a car towed In that had sugar put In the gas tank. It plug the fuel filter and we clean the fuel line and gas tank, change the oil and filter. filled with gas and the car ran fine after that. We also sold them a gas cap that locked with a key.

 

[Matt400]

Sugar isn't soluble in fuel so the worst thing it would do is clog the filter.



Eric

It will destroy a gasser fuel system, we just did a Ford Ranger that needed a tank & lines flush, replacement regulator, pump & injectors.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Greg Adams- Welcome to the TDR! The Ignition key kind of opens or closes a solenoid valve in the fuel line. If the injectors stick open, they're down stream of the solenoid valve and will be starved of fuel, effectively shutting down the engine. A runaway engine uses oil from crankcase after the ignition (valve) is shut. VERY RARE in our trucks!!! Having had a stuck injector in my 04. 5, the smoke bellowing out the exhaust was WHITE and voluminous. :-laf Don't let that discourage you, I goom-bahed myself with a little too much black box. Problem solved. Keep reading these forums, you're amongst some pretty good guys here! You'll learn plenty, and become a Dodge owner sooner than later.

A Different Greg

 

[JHardwick]

SugarIt will destroy a gasser fuel system, we just did a Ford Ranger that needed a tank & lines flush, replacement regulator, pump & injectors.

MythBusters proved this to be an urban legend ... ... ..... I want their job!

 

[jwilliams3]

Either way the engines would be replaced.

 

[Bertram65]

The whole story makes no sense, why even post it when you didn't even know what had happened to the engines in the first place?

The "update" spun bearing? how did the dealership determine that? I would like to see a spun bearing "lock up" a motor.

Stuck injector? it was running rough?, so they were checking the oil and noticed the level was a little high, so your freind at the dealer called you ASAP to tell you another Cummins had blown up?



One time at band camp.....

 

[RKerner]

Btdt

The "update" spun bearing? how did the dealership determine that? I would like to see a spun bearing "lock up" a motor.

Remove oil pan. Inspect main and rod caps to see which one is burnt dry. Remove suspect bearing cap and find bearing smeared and all babbitt removed. Notice that bearing has no more tangs and copper part is welded to the crank journal. Put big wrench on crank and now it turns whereas it did not turn before.

Diagnosis: spun bearing

Why did the bearing spin? Not from being loose, that's for sure. Too tight? Fer sure. Ferrin' material in oil journal, possibly. Place wrong under/oversize insert in bearing cap, mebbe.



Will a spun rod bearing seize an engine? Sometimes.

Will a spun crank bearing seize an engine? You betcha.



Bert, it's hard not to notice you are this month's official TDR BS referee. Oo.

 

[Bertram65]

Remove oil pan. Inspect main and rod caps to see which one is burnt dry. Remove suspect bearing cap and find bearing smeared and all babbitt removed. Notice that bearing has no more tangs and copper part is welded to the crank journal. Put big wrench on crank and now it turns whereas it did not turn before.

Diagnosis: spun bearing

Why did the bearing spin? Not from being loose, that's for sure. Too tight? Fer sure. Ferrin' material in oil journal, possibly. Place wrong under/oversize insert in bearing cap, mebbe.



Will a spun rod bearing seize an engine? Sometimes.

Will a spun crank bearing seize an engine? You betcha.



Bert, it's hard not to notice you are this month's official TDR BS referee. Oo.

Maybe... but they would have to pull the engine to drop the pan, maybe they did, I just highly doubt it.

 

[FPettijohn]

Will a spun rod bearing seize an engine? Sometimes



If the engine is at low rpm's it will seize. If the engine is at high rpm,s the rod will break and the either window the block,pan and the piston will bang the head. If the rod breaks on the small end it will also probably break the crank. anyway it's all very ugly and VERY expensive :{

 

[nickleinonen]

I would like to see a spun bearing "lock up" a motor.

it all depends on what happens after the bearing spins... if the main bearing welds it's self to the crank and block, then yeah the engine will lock up. spun rod bearing if you are lucky will just take out the one rod journal and you will need a new crank [diesel crankshafts are rarely turned down for undersized bearings - you loose the hardening on the journals] worse case it takes out the rod and holes the block... then you basically need a new short block...



at work i have seen an engine lock up to a spun and welded rod bearing... no other engine damage, but the crank was shot... ±$250,000 for a new emd 16v710 crank [or half crank, i don't know if they just changed the part 1 or both parts of the 2 piece crank] and a trip to the backshops