2 stroke oil in fuel?

[JARichard]

I was reading on the Cummins forum that is not suggested to run synthetic 2 stroke oil?

My question is why? Because if I run synthetic everything else why not burn a synthetic oil made to be burned!

 

[Bachant]

2 stroke oil is not intended to be burned. It is to lube the top end of a 2 stroke. I know it does burn but that is not what it's for.

 

[jelag]

I was just reading a SAE report on Bio-diesel (B100) based on a study by the major injection manufacturers..... These are the guys that make the injection systems for the cars and trucks that are on the road today... I'm not going to find the paragraphs and quote them... . as the report is 10 point type and about 10 pages long... .



But what they said in a nut shell is that if the additive or fuel meets the fed specification for these engines, than its fine to pour into the tank... . if it's not on the list for meeting fuel or additive standards its not to be put in the tank... .



One of the specific points they make is that E10 for cars... . that's 10% ethonol (sp) and 90% gasoline will work in all cars..... E15, 15% ethonol and 85% gasoline will work in some cars..... E85 like what is sold in Brazil will not function and will cause fuel system failure... ... except for those cars built for all fuel engines..... like what are sold in Brazil... . those have parts that will withstand the the chemical difference... . BTW the report also stated that E85 required 40% more fuel to go the same distance as E10... .



I used to watch an old mechanic pour the left over drain oil from the construction equipment into the fuel tank... . and this was OK 25 years ago on those old style injection systems... but not today...



I guess what I'm saying is that this injection system is very expensive to design and repair... . I wouldn't add anything to the tanks that might make the truck not function 100%... .

 

[lethal injection]

The synthetic does not burn as good and will run out your tailpipe

 

[Nate]

I'm burning synthetic oil right now, came out of my buddy's Xterra. Castrol Syntec I believe.



I burn used engine oil, ATF, and gear oil. I've been doing this all summer.



I don't see how it could hurt anything if it's filtered properly, which I do.

 

[rjohnson916]

I've never ran "used" oil in my 3rd generation, but... I did get a few free cases of some "cheap" or "generic" new oil that I would never use in any of my vehicles or equipment. Went through all of the cases, mixing with diesel. Truck ran absolutely the same, no more or less smoke. No smoother or rougher idle, ran just like a champ.



-Ryan

 

[Cattletrkr]

I installed a hitch the other night for a guy who runs an oil/filter collection business. He was talking about running oil with your diesel fuel.



Have any of you heard of Marvin Windows. They're pretty big up here. A few years ago, I don't know how many, they experimented with a system that would change the engine oil on the fly and dump it into the fuel tank. It took them quite a while to get the mix right. They lost a few engines in the process. The oil will burn a lot hotter and when they used too much they had nothing but scrap metal under the hood. He didn't know what the final % ended up being, but the point is BE CAREFUL.



The rest of the story is when the IRS came thru and did an audit they made them pay road tax on the oil they used. I'd like to find out if that held up in court or not but that's what this guy said.



If you have to run oil in your truck, try it in your shop furnace first. Just stand back a long ways and be ready to dial 911. Just 'cause it works, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

[Nate]

Cummins says up to 5% is ok from what I read. I have 2 liter soda bottles, I put 10oz of Power Service and fill the rest with filtered engine oil. Figure 2 liters is roughly 1/2 gallon. 1/2 gallon oil with 30 gallons fuel is roughly 2% mix.

 

[CLamb]

One of my customers that runs over the road trucks dump all of the oil from the oil changes into the tanks. Granted they have a much larger fuel capacity but they also hold alot more oil as well(running a mercedes diesel in freightliner trucks). I got started on this conversation when I noticed the sight glass ont he fuel filter looked like crap lol, black as tar. The mechanic said they had just changed the oil and that they put it all into the tank and thats why the sight glass was black. He didn't seem to be a huge fan of the procedure but said they have had no troubles.

 

[JARichard]

SO, synthetic 2 stroke oil doesn't burn as well. That makes sense!



After I finish this gallon I will only buy dino 2 stroke oil.



My mix is like this, I buy the big jug of PS and a quart of MMO, I mix them together I pour 16 oz of that and 8 oz of stroke oil per tank.





Best tank was 19. 2 last week. Just turned 10,100 miles!

 

[skipro3]

I race 2 stroke dirt bikes. the 2 stroke oil IS MADE TO BURN!!!!



In a 2 stroke motor, the gas/air/oil mix enters in the ports when the piston is on it's upstroke. This mix is pulled in under the piston and lubes the crank and wrist pin. On the downstroke, the mix is force through passages around the cylinder and into the combustion chamber. There is nothing to lube up there, the lube is only needed at the crank end of things. Now with the mix in the combustion chamber, the stuff is burned. Good stuff has low ash and burns pretty thoughly. This results in little or no smoke and "spooge". (Spooge is the term used for wet goo that comes out the exhaust of a 2 stroke's muffler. )

 

[Bachant]

I race 2 stroke dirt bikes. the 2 stroke oil IS MADE TO BURN!!!!



In a 2 stroke motor, the gas/air/oil mix enters in the ports when the piston is on it's upstroke. This mix is pulled in under the piston and lubes the crank and wrist pin. On the downstroke, the mix is force through passages around the cylinder and into the combustion chamber. There is nothing to lube up there, the lube is only needed at the crank end of things. Now with the mix in the combustion chamber, the stuff is burned. Good stuff has low ash and burns pretty thoughly. This results in little or no smoke and "spooge". (Spooge is the term used for wet goo that comes out the exhaust of a 2 stroke's muffler. )

Why is there oil in the fuel. Answer to lube the top end.

If not run you dirt bike with out it. Spooge is unburned oil. I been drag racing and building Banshees for the last 5 years.

 

[CMorton]

This is a two part question

1) What is the need to run oil in the diesel fuel? Have there been reports of unlubricated top ends or injectors?

2) History has shown that oil mixed with diesel fuel has worked in non-emission diesel engines. However, knowing how sensitive gasoline emission systems are to fuel mixture problems, why take the chance with diesel emission systems? This leads to question #1, why do it in the first place? Just because it has been done in the past doesn't mean its OK now.

 

[RustyJC]

For us 2nd generation folks who have fuel-lubricated VP44 injection pumps, the answer is pretty clear - the pump's life depends on the lubricity of the fuel. For you 3rd gen guys, I don't have enough background on your fuel system to comment one way or the other.



Rusty

 

[JStrasser]

My question is, if you feel that your engine needs additional lubrication added to your fuel, how do you figure out how much is the proper amount of oil to add?



I can read the back of a bottle of Power Service and the manufacturer has obviously investigated the recommended amount to add to a certain amount of fuel (I HOPE that they aren't just guessing at it!)



But on this and other forums I have read about many people adding X amount of some sort of oil to their fuel. How do "oil adders" know if they are adding enough, or if they are adding too much?



BTW, we travelled throughout New England last weekend, and both of the diesel pumps I used (one in central Connecticut, one in southern VT) stated that I was buying 15ppm fuel- ULSD. So the change has not only started, but now the pump stickers are reflecting this change.



John

 

[RustyJC]

Cummins endorses up to 5% engine oil in fuel. At a ratio of 1 quart of 2-cycle oil to every 25 gallons of fuel, that's a 1% concentration.



Rusty

 

[pwr2tow]

People complain about fuel prices yet some think they need to up the price even more by adding three different combinations of additives . Just use an additive that is designed for diesel fuel and be happy, like power services or Howes or ect. ect.

 

[jcarey]

Rusty,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that applies to the 2004. 5 and later engines with a catalytic converter.



Jim

 

[RustyJC]

Could be - that's out of my frame of reference.



Rusty

 

[MA2LA]

I can see this practice on 2nd gen and even 12 valvers, maybe just maybe a little in our 3 gen. I used to race atvs and started out with 2 storke then went 4 stroke, well one day out of gas and only some 2 stroke mix at about 38 to 1 it went in my quad, since that piont i ran about a 40 to 1 mix in every tank and after a year of running the snoot out of it the top end looked perfect and it was fun to have the caster oil smell out of the pipe. Another use for 2 stoke mix is in alot of cars and trucks that have nosie coming from thier fuel pumps, dump a can in and it can work wonders, but over all its damn expensive to use.