2 Trucks with no start problem. HELP!!!!!

[Blacksdieselhp]

Ok, I have two trucks here with similar problems. One is a 2003 with 77k on it. It has had an ez on it for a most of its life. It will crank and run fine sometimes, then other times, you have to crank it for several seconds and finally it will start up. Sometimes it won't start at all. I checked fuel pressure and the relief valve, both are good. The other truck is a 2004 with 125k on it. It has had some kind of chip on it, but don't know what kind. It had a no start problem in which it won't crank at all. the owner has been using either to crank it, and once it cranks, it runs but ahs a lopey idle and if you touch the gas pedal it will jump to 2500 rpms and stick and surges from 2400-2600 rpms. It smokes a little bit when driing it. I have replaced the tps, map sensor, fan clutch, FCA and ECM. It still doesn't crank. Fuel pressure is good and relief valve is good. Could this be cause by injector pump or injectors? Any way to test? Usually a bad injector will give a miss or some white smoke, but neither truck has bad injector signs. Please let me know if you guys have seen this before and know the fix. Thanks

 

[JFaughn]

Have you pulled any codes ?
Your terms are a little misleading , cranking , either ?
The either can'nt make the starter crank , but it can get the eng. to run if there is a fuel supply issue .
You may need to get someone with a scanner [ a real one like Snap On ] - much more able to find the problem .
If you bought the parts for the 2nd truck new , you could have got the scanner for less , and just put in the parts that were bad .
It sounds like a fuel problem or a combination of that & electrical , it may not be the same problem in both .

 

[MMeier]

First truck almost sounds like a lift pump going south, 2 nd truck I'd almost have to say the same, but the sticky throttle has me there. As for the ether use, I hope the grid heaters are inoperable!

 

[JMarketos]

Sorry I don't offer any feedback aimed at the core of this thread,

but regarding "crank" terminology, I echo the sentiments.

Maybe it's not regional, but I ran into this when I moved from north to south... .



in north

"crank" means the starter motor turning the recip assembly of the engine.

reference to the engine firing or running is often termed "catching".

ie. "she cranks but she won't catch". "I cranked it until the battery was dead"



in south

I have found when someone says "it won't crank", they often mean

to convey that the starter motor turns the engine, but it doesn't fire.



Also about using ether to fire: I've heard bad things about doing

this. If I'm not mistaken, my Dodge owner's manual says "don't".

The grid heater + ether might give more of a cranking fire than was desired.



But I sure hope you get some good direct feedback for your specific question.

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Actually, I tested each electrical component before replacing. The ecm had two 5 volt outputs that weren't working. . So I replaced it to take care of those problems. But the truck still won't crank. So i'm not sure if the tps fixed the revving problem or not as I haven't cranked it since replacement although the one I replaced did fail a bench test as did the map sensor. did put the truck on a snapon scanner and the scanner wouldn't connect with the ecm. Now I'm thinking I got a bad one from dodge. Oh well, guess i'll keep digging.

 

[Bob4x4]

Actually, I tested each electrical component before replacing. The ecm had two 5 volt outputs that weren't working. . So I replaced it to take care of those problems. But the truck still won't crank. So i'm not sure if the tps fixed the revving problem or not as I haven't cranked it since replacement although the one I replaced did fail a bench test as did the map sensor. did put the truck on a snapon scanner and the scanner wouldn't connect with the ecm. Now I'm thinking I got a bad one from dodge. Oh well, guess i'll keep digging.

All the ecm's I get are empty,the software must be loaded.



Bob

 

[Semicrazy]

Same here, I thought the ECMs come with the boot cal/software but you need the specific Vehicle VIN to program the vehicle specific cals in using the scan tool?

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep ,theirs your problem, ECM,If on the 03 Auto you have the PCM/ECM combo witch complicates everything More. the software is just to complex without Tech Authority Help,Just drop the $1500 for a year, I think its is worth it for any software issue,Drop $6000 for starscan and your ready to go. When it comes to issues likes these, Snap,Jap, whatever the scan tool,It just does not get the Job Done.

 

[jelag]

I'd like to give some input about the safety issue and either... . Either when put into an intake system with a heater grid can explode and cause sever damage to the truck and the people around it... . either was a great additive to start an old style engine as it lights off at very low pressure and temperatures... often whats common in the intake manifold... . I've seen this damage... . if only a hose blows off it scares the sh** out of you... if either backs up to the turbo or intercooler when it blows you have a bomb.....

Also too much either will wash down the top piston ring and allow the top of the piston and ring to scrub the top of the cylinder which will do some damage... .

You might use either without the grid heater connected... . but it still can back fire from manifold heat and pressure causing the same damage... either shouldn't be used.....

I'll now step off the soap box... . I share this with you because I have a good friend who has gone through most of his life from using this stuff when he wasn't careful has very bad scaring from the burns.....

Just my thoughts here.....

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Thanks for the info on ether, but I am aware of the damgers and other reasons not to use it. that is why the truck hasn't been cranked since I have had it. I will not use ether to crank a truck customers truck and would only use it on my own if I were stranded and had no other choice. But anyway, I am about out of options on people to ask for advice on these things. i hate to throw parts at a truck, but I guess I'l try injectors and injector pump. The dodge dealer here in town programmed the ecm, but come to find out, they fried it somehow. So I have another one on the way. My fingers are crossed tha it works. I am aware of them needing programmed, as I have done several of them on 2nd gen 24 valve trucks. But they guy at the dodge place said that the newer ecms were coming already programmed. he said he replaced one last week and tried to program it, but it wouldn't take the program. So he tried to crank it to see what would happen and it started right up and worked fine without any programming. So that just confused me more cause now I won't know if the new one I get is programmed or not.

 

[CAT 385]

I would bet it is your injectors, my 04. 5 did the same thing. If you hold the throttle to the floor aand let up does it seem like it "sticks" there.

If so that is why it is hard to start because the ecm knows there is a runaway condition present.

MIne did it while in MOntana I had no choice but to fire on either or never shut it off to get home. The dealer replaced the pump and all 6 injectors only took about a month to do it thanks to the support from star LOL.

By the way the pump was fine but cheaper to replace it first then the injectors.

 

[cojhl2]

Sorry I don't offer any feedback aimed at the core of this thread,

but regarding "crank" terminology, I echo the sentiments.

Maybe it's not regional, but I ran into this when I moved from north to south... .



in north

"crank" means the starter motor turning the recip assembly of the engine.

reference to the engine firing or running is often termed "catching".

ie. "she cranks but she won't catch". "I cranked it until the battery was dead"



in south

I have found when someone says "it won't crank", they often mean

to convey that the starter motor turns the engine, but it doesn't fire.



Also about using ether to fire: I've heard bad things about doing

this. If I'm not mistaken, my Dodge owner's manual says "don't".

The grid heater + ether might give more of a cranking fire than was desired.



But I sure hope you get some good direct feedback for your specific question.

I've wondered about this. Evey once in a while you see "crank: used as it won't catch or self commence. Sounds really wierd to this ole northern boy.



What do you do when you put that bent rod thing in the front of the crankshaft and turn the engine by hand? ie: Darn, we had to crank that thing cause the battery was dead.



So in the south what is the terminology when it won't crank(north vernacular)?

 

[Bob4x4]

Same here, I thought the ECMs come with the boot cal/software but you need the specific Vehicle VIN to program the vehicle specific cals in using the scan tool?

It isn't the vin it is the control number on the data tag... ... ... ..... you choose the part# you want to use but you better be right,it can't be changed at the dealer level once it has been loaded. The dealer can not choose the software by the vin but star can pull up the correct # that way.



Bob

 

[Semicrazy]

Ah... Thanks Bob, it is always interesting to find out how the different processes work.