Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 2000 1ton 4x4 duelie

[DATEC]

Hi Guys, I'm new to the forum and have a problem.



I have an "all stock" 2000 1ton diesel 4x4 duelie cab/chassie w/flat bed (standard cab, auto trans. ), it only has 29,900mi on it and only moves when it has something to pull. I have an after hours concrete business and it pulls my equipment and material. I have owned it since it was a year old and it had 5,500mi on it when I bought it. I have after 3yrs of owning it put a new transmission in it (snuck in under warrenty, it had expired before that happened) and then after that warrenty was just about to expire the flex plate desided to explode like a hand gernade and broke the housing (not under warrenty cost me $2600). I now have another trans. problem and I really don't know what I should do, everything is pointing to the T/C but until the thing is out and tore down I wont know what else but the truck stalls "right now" when put into drive or reverse like the T/C is locked up.

I have looked into Goerend tran. 's which I have a preferance to given all the reading I have done. The problem is when I called them they said that at this time they are sooo backed up they are not intertaining any new orders and will not until "at least the very soonest "Mabey" Augest". Holly crap I really can't wait until Augest to see if they are now open to new orders. She did say she could sell me all and anything for the rebuild I wanted or needed. I like their price and all I have read what other are saying who have their trans. . I asked if I could get their T/C, valve body and billet F/P if when they are open for orders if I could order one without that stuff, she said no but they would give me full credit for it when I order a trans. and return those items.

I was told today that I could put an Allison in there for alittle more and be far better off and that that would be an unbeatable combo.

Is there another option I should look at or just rebuild this one? and should I use Goerend stuff?

When I scale at the Concrete yard, truck, trailer and load weigh 25,500lbs on average no heavier that I know of (I can't weigh myself when removing scrap from the job sight but have from time to time been very heavy so much so that my dump trailer couldn't dump without help from a front loader).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



Dave

 

[cerberusiam]

First, where are you located? That will help us to advise on a builder close to you that may be able to help.



From your description, TC is done. Whether or not the rest of the trans is in bad shape is the question. If it is the TC, you can likely swap it out and go for a long time.



An Allison swap is possible, but, its not a bolt-in deal. There will be customizations needed and it won't be cheap. A stock Ally won't live behind a Cummins unmamaged and at those weights it will just hurt it faster. You will need to drop coin to have the Ally built and that can get expensive.



A good 47 or 48RE will do just fine and be a lot cheaper in the long run. Finding a builder that can do it quickly and correctly is the single largest obstacle.

 

[Road Dog]

The Isuzu/Allison combination uses torque management to protect the transmission. It's no stronger than a 47RE.

DTT in Langley BC also builds up transmissions. If Goerend doesn't have time they might recommend a local transmission shop that can install their parts.

 

[DATEC]

Thanks for the replies. I am from western Pa (a stones throw from Youngstown, Oh) I have talked to Levi from Destroked today and you are correct in that it would not be cheep $9k plus shipping and he said it would take almost a week to get it done and I would have to take my drive shafts out to get cut and modified for the equipment so You can figure it would be north of $10k by the time it was done, NO THANKS, I can think of other things to do with that money and mine and my mechanics time.

Goerend did give me 2 numbers of dealers kinda close to me (about 1hr 1 way) and 1 said he could do it but was higher then if I just bought one done from Goerend by at least $500 and he offered only a 1yr warrenty the other said he could also but also said that with what I do with the truck there is no Trans. made that would last no matter what I did to it, he never gave me a price or called me back with any info I asked him to find out from Goerend. I have another builder that I'm talking with that came recommended by my mechanic (they build stock trans. , race car trans. and truck pull trans. ) he is liking the Ally and said they have never rebuilt/repaired one of those and said they are far stronger then mine anyday of the week but will do what ever I want. So I hope you can see my delema with what to do. I really don't want to worry about this dam trans. getting smoked every 3years. I have read all good things about Goerend never any negative. Should I just chalk up the year of work and wait?



Thanks



Dave

 

[cerberusiam]

Forget the guy that said the 47RE would never last, he doesn't know enough to trust. Thats like when I was looking to build a 518 and 3 different builders are telling me they can't be built behind a lowly 1st gen diesel. They had to modify their statements to THEY could not build them to last. It can be done easily.



You might want to consider a 48RE. It will bolt right in and is heavier in the needed areas. TRE in Virginia Beach builds a good transmission and he may ship to you. Suncoast is another option if Goerend is busy. Garmon's here in Georgia will do you right and ship I think.



Quite frankly, all the shops do the same basic things to make them last. They all have their special procedures and parts they use but overall its pretty much the same build unless you want some esoteric things. A heavy duty towing build is one of the simplest to do.



An Ally would be good upgrade if you can swing the $10k to do it right. If you don't do it right and build the trans its a waste of the $$, the Ally will NOT hold without management no matter how much love some of these huys have for it. :-laf



As close as you are to population areas I would think there are shops that can do it at a decent price. Ferreting them out might take some doing. You could check with any local diesel clubs and look at the state chapters here for contacts. somebody knows where to send you.

 

[DATEC]

Forget the guy that said the 47RE would never last, he doesn't know enough to trust. Thats like when I was looking to build a 518 and 3 different builders are telling me they can't be built behind a lowly 1st gen diesel. They had to modify their statements to THEY could not build them to last. It can be done easily.



You might want to consider a 48RE. It will bolt right in and is heavier in the needed areas. TRE in Virginia Beach builds a good transmission and he may ship to you. Suncoast is another option if Goerend is busy. Garmon's here in Georgia will do you right and ship I think.



Quite frankly, all the shops do the same basic things to make them last. They all have their special procedures and parts they use but overall its pretty much the same build unless you want some esoteric things. A heavy duty towing build is one of the simplest to do.



An Ally would be good upgrade if you can swing the $10k to do it right. If you don't do it right and build the trans its a waste of the $$, the Ally will NOT hold without management no matter how much love some of these huys have for it. :-laf



As close as you are to population areas I would think there are shops that can do it at a decent price. Ferreting them out might take some doing. You could check with any local diesel clubs and look at the state chapters here for contacts. somebody knows where to send you.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't know I could go with a 48re what would the benifit be? would it be worth while? or should I just have the builder rebuild this one. I can get everything from Goerend they use in theirs or I could get a kit from another Manuf. if it would perform and last better.



Dave

 

[BigPapa]

I'm with cerb.



Drop the second guy Goerends gave you the number for, forget the idiots pushing the Alison, call Goerends back and talk to Dave or Craig and tell them what the first guy told you. If they still recommend him, I'd go there. Goerends will not steer you wrong. An hour one way is nothing. I'd drive to Iowa if I needed to.



The others cerb mentioned all offer excellent products also, but they're further from you than Goerends. I run a Goerends TC, VB, billet band anchor, and a laminated flex plate. The rest of the trans was built stock by a reputable builder in my area.

 

[AClayton]

Love my Goerend transmission! The 47RE is not a stout unit behind a stock Cummins let alone a modded one... ... . BUT, a modded transmission will live and live a long time. I had an ATS that lasted a little over 1 year and that was with their 'famed' 5-Star TC. I had no luck with that at all! I talked to Dave... told him what I used my truck for and he built a transmission that suited my needs. It doesn't slam in between gears and bark tires, the TC locks and locks tight without throwing out U-joints and my transmission has lasted for over 3 yrs pulling large loads. I tow a 40' toyhauler quite regulary and a 12' enclosed trailer every day.

 

[cerberusiam]

A 47 can be made into a 48 just by swapping parts. The 48RE upgraded the problem areas, input shaft, main transmission planetaries, OD planetaries, and clutch counts. Dodge at least paid attention to what the aftermarket was doing to make the 47 live and incorporated those changes into the OE design.



The clutch counts, steel cage 5 and 6 pinion planetaries are the weakest areas in the 47 and will suffer the wrost with the type of use you are talking about. Thats what the 48 addressed along with a larger input shaft. Add a billet cover TC with an upgraded start assembly and bearings and even a 47RE can be built almost bullet proof.



You can buy all the parts to build a top flight transmission. The biggets thing is finding somebody to put it together correctly and not cut corners. If you can find a Goerend or DTT builder in your area I think you will be $$ ahead and quite happy with the results.

 

[DATEC]

Update to Trans. . I just took the trans. to the builder (DeArment Trans. , Greenville, Pa) and had him order a bunch of parts from Goerend. The builder is impressed with their valvebody and would like to see it to see what they all did I wouldn't know buy looking at it but he said that when he got on their site he was impressed.

I had him order...



Valvebody, billet conv. , billet flex plate, buillet input shaft, master rebuild kit.



When talking to Goerend (my builder agreed) she recommended that I not put a billet output to leave a weak link in the trans. in that if something was going to break it should be the output shaft so it doesen't damage the trans. . She also recommended I have the conv. at 500rpm under factory. I would have just bought one complete straight from Goerend but now their timeframe has been moved to mabey (or not) Sept. and that really just wont work for me at all.

I was looking into Garmon Trans. stage2 but desided to just go with the Goerend. The disappointing thing is the total will be $5250 done including a new case ($400) as mine had the shifter mount (driver side ear mount) crack off I remember seeing it after I had got it back when I had thrown the flex plate and was picking it up from the Dodge Dealer, why I didn't say anything? I really have no idea but I didn't and remember seeing it thinking hey that's cracked. They probably would have blamed it on the flex plate and charged me anyhow. So in 2 weeks I should be back in business hoping that this one will last and perform as it should.

What else should I do, a new trans cooler? or is what I have (stock) good enough. I am also having new trans. lines installed due to them being crappy looking and since we are there you might as well. What about Trans. fluid keep using the +4 or use something else?



Next we might as well start blowing black smoke any ideas where to start looking first. New turbo with waste gate mabey?



Thanks,



Dave

 

[AClayton]

Sounds to me like you did well. Did you get the triple-lock convertor? Dave set mine up exactly like yours except the flexplate. He suggested that but I just couldn't see doing unless I was racing or something. My stock flexplate has almost 200k now and I have had no problems.



As far as upgrades... ... ..... the aftermarket has really stepped up here. You can research different power-packages for different trucks and anticipated hp levels. If you tow heavy and regularly, I would suggest biting the bullet and getting the BD towing twins. Nothing like having a modded diesel and pulling up a hill and egt's won't go over 1100

 

[GHedger]

I think for sure you are on the right track by using Goerend. I purchased all my parts including valve body from Dave and did the build myself. the trans has lasted five years with only a band adjustment and fluid change. I hook to a sled 6-10 times a year and hang a snow plow in the winter. My trans was about to years old(but very low miles)when i went to a much larger turbo and needed a different T/C. I called Dave, he told me what I needed and swapped me T/C's no charge other than shipping and sent it to me so I had it on hand when I was ready to pull the trans. As far as I'm concerned a Goerend trans is worth the wait or extra mile!!!! Anyhow you might want to contact Haisley Machine, they are a dealer for Dave and there located in Fairmount Indiana 46928 which is located north central Indiana, about one hour west of Ohio line. Good luck!!

 

[DATEC]

I did get the triple disc conv. with the lifetime warrenty. I really did not want to short cut this thing in anyway. Thanks for the replys I will be looking into all the suggestions for the next upgrade once I recover from this build. I will report back when I get my truck back.
I will be looking for new fuel lines as mine are looking a little crusty any suggestions where I can get them at a reasonable cost, I want the ones on the engine and injector pump.

Thanks

Dave

 

[cerberusiam]

Probably should have went with a billet input shaft if you got the triple disk. The 2nd gen lockup algorithm isn't as firm so you can get away with it but be careful in heavy load heavy throttle situations cuz the 47 input does not like a hard lockup at all.

 

[DATEC]

I did get billet everything except the output shaft I left as stock.

 

[DATEC]

just noticed I was spelling dually wrong all this time :-laf .



Dave