Archived 2000 24v won't start

[npieske]

Problem: Truck will not start. Turn key for Grid Heaters to cycle, all appropriate dash lights illuminate, fuel pump cycles, relays appear to be working, engine will not start. Engine does not turn over, starter does not appear to want to make truck start.



Corrective Action Taken: Replaced starter contacts, checked fuses. No codes thrown.



Luckily, truck died in my garage, where it sits until I can figure this out. I am out of ideas and need my truck.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

Without a truck profile it is difficult to quickly narrow down the problem.

Here are a few suggestions:

Fuse (you said it was good so check off the list);
If you have a manual transmission it may be the clutch pedal switch;
It may be the ignition switch;
It may be the starter relay in the PDC;
Maybe even a bad wire, but not likely.
and, even a bad starter motor.

 

[npieske]

Sorry, I have an Automatic Transmission. I just tested the power lead into the starter. There are 12. 17 volts with the key on. I am not sure why my truck profile is not showing up... . any ideas?

 

[Sticks]

OK, Redneck time.

Truck in park, emergency brake on, Key turned to "Run", crawl under the truck using a short lead (12") of 16ga wire, short across the primary power wire to the smaller signal wire. If the starter turns over, you can start working backwards. If it does not, your starter is likely fried. In order to verify that you will need to either do a voltage drop test, or have access to an amp meter. Possible you have a corroded primary power wire, or broken. A single strand of wire no larger than a hair will show full voltage, but can not carry the amperage to turn the starter.

Swap out the starter relay in the PDC with a known good relay, and try by key. Yes/No

NPSS (Neutral Park Safety Switch) on the transmission. Been too long since I have done one of those to walk you through checking and bypassing it, other than trying to start the truck in Neutral.

 

[npieske]

I tapped the 12v primary to the signal wire and the starter activated!



I already switched the starter relay with the trailer relay to see if that was the culprit yielding negative results. Maybe I should purchase another new relay and see if that works?



I also attempted to start the truck with the shift selector in neutral, yielding negative results.



Is the next step to trace out the signal wire, or is it likely now the ignition switch in the cab? This would also mean I would have to re-key the truck too?!

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

One point, aw shucks, 10 points for Redneck troubleshooting.
Well, one spendy item eliminated when the starter turned over...
Now, if you are still jumper arcing brave, pull the Engine Starter Motor Relay and jump (tap) between socket 30 and 87. This will connect power from the battery (through the 30 amp fuse in the PDC) to the solenoid of the starter motor. If you get action here half the possibilities are eliminated.

If all the above work the most likely culprit would be either the Park - Neutral switch or ignition switch.

If the starter turns over by jumping 30 to 87 check for 12vdc in socket 86 to ground when the ignition switch is start and shift selector in P or N. This will check for power to the starter motor relay coil. You can also check for continuity from socket 85 to ground - eliminating a bad relay ground.

IIRC the electrical part of the ignition switch is separate from the key cylinder so you shouldn't have to re-key.

The socket numbers I refer to are from a 2002 FSM. Should be the same as your 2000.

 

[Sticks]

You did check all the fuses, right? Both under the hood and in the cab?

You are not having any other odd failures?

 

[Missouri Mule]

If jumping between pin 30 and 87 turns the starter. Try turning you key to "run" position and jumping 30 and 87 again and the engine should start.

If it does the problem is before the relay if doesn't it could be your vp44.

 

[npieske]

I tried jumping pin 30 to 87, yielding negative results. I used my multimeter and only . 27-. 30 volts are present at pin 30 with or without ignition on. It does not appear there is any power going into the starter relay at all. When I turn the key forward, I can hear a relay click, but not sure which one...



No odd failures are present, or were present prior to failure of ignition system.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

How about fuse 9 (I think it's 9) in the PDC? 30 amp. Pull it and check it with an ohm meter.

 

[npieske]

I just pulled the fuse and it appears good. I have a multimeter, but don't know how to use it to test ohms for resistance... I will try getting a replacement fuse.

 

[Sticks]

Using your volt meter, check each terminal in the Starter Relay sockets for voltage. With the key on, you should have power to 1 (#30) - Yes/No If no power in ignition Run, then you have a problem between the battery and the PDC - Fuse, connections.

With the key held on "Start" you should have power at both #30 and #85. The other 2 sockets, one will be ground and the other the signal line out. Yes/No If you are not getting power to 2 sockets with the key held in start, then your problem lies between the PDC relay socket, and the ignition switch - wire harness, connections.

Verify that you have a good connection between the signal line and the starter solenoid - Remove, Clean, Reconnect. If you know you are testing the correct wire, check continuity between the relay socket #87 and the connection end of the signal wire. Yes/No

 

[Missouri Mule]

There is a fuse in the PDC for the power supply to the starter relay it is a 40 amp or larger fuse as Sticks suggested check wires and connections going to PDC.

 

[npieske]

Checked and replaced the 30A fuse for ignition control and verified there is power coming in and out of the PDC. When the ignition is rotated to the start position, relays click and it seems like the ignition is working. Should I still be concerned with the ignition switch? I local auto parts store has a Borg-Warner ignition switch for $55 and is in stock. I hate to keep throwing money at the truck with replacement of different switches, etc...

 

[npieske]

Still no power at the relay for ignition control...

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

Well... Comparing the 98 to the 02 schematics the 98 has fuse 2 feeding the relay contacts and the 02 has fuse 9 feeding them. Now to figure which one the 00 uses...
The starter relay is the same. So you jumped socket 30 to socket 87 of the engine starter motor relay and nothing happened? Socket 30 should have constant battery voltage present. Going up toward the battery the next stop is Joint Connector Number 2 in the PDC; then to fuse 2 or 9, depending on which schematic - does the 00 use either one or is it going to be different? Anyway, from the fuse it goes directly to the battery. How are the wires that connect to the positive terminal of the driver's side battery?
Check for battery voltage at socket 30 of the starter relay. If no voltage then check voltage at either fuse 2 or 9. (If you pull the fuse to check for voltage only one socket will have voltage - the side fed by the battery.

 

[KCanepari]

have you by-passed the neutral safety switch yet? I guarantee that's what it is, mine went on my 2000.

 

[npieske]

Replaced the ignition switch... . still nothing. I may have to cheat and get the truck started by arcing the power lead to the switch and just drive it to my repair shop. I am pulling my hair out.

 

[npieske]

How do you bypass the nuetral safety switch?

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

Whoa there.
Back in post 9 you stated that jumping 87 and 30 of the starter motor relay produced no spinning starter and you did not have battery voltage on 30. That removes the ignition switch and P-N safety switch from the formula. This leaves the battery (which seems to be good); the wiring from the battery to the PDC; the PDC wiring to the fuse (maybe 2, or 9, or some other in the '00 model); the wiring from the fuse in the PDC to the starter motor relay pin 30. Since you had no voltage at pin 30 and wiring usually stays sound as long as it is taken care of (no corrosion at the terminals, or slicing & dicing for accessories), then the most likely cause will be the fuse. Check them all in the PDC - try swapping some like valued fuses around if you have difficulty performing a continuity check with the multimeter.
You say that you hear relays clicking when you try to start the truck. Have someone try to start the truck while you place your finger on the starter relay in the PDC. If it is clicking the P-N safety switch and ignition switch are OK and the fault will be either the fuse or the contacts in the starter relay (or something from the battery to pin 30 of the starter relay).