Archived 2000 Fuel Delivery Woes!!!

[troynkaren]

As an 04 owner myself and a professional aircraft mechanic/shade tree car mech trying to help my Dad get his 2000 1 ton Dually running again I post the following:



His 2000 Cummins with 103,000 miles shutdown in town (2500' elev). He reports it shutdown previously when stopping for lunch while out of town months ago (elev 4,000') but after a short amount of time it started and ran but did not seem to make the same power and experienced a fade in power when accelerating.



Checked the following and or replaced:



- Fuel Filter (replaced)

- Transfer Pump (found inop & replaced "NAPA part") Electric engine mounted type.

- Bled entire system to include every injector

- No MIL

- Fault Codes found: P336 (Crankshaft Position Sensor Problem), P253 (?), P252 (?), P251 (Fuel Injection Pump Problem), P1688 (?), P1689 (?).

- Engine will run smooth when carefully spraying starting fluid in air inlet pre & post inter-cooler.



Currently have a few Diesel mechs and one expert auto electrical tech scratching their heads.



After a visit to my local Dodge Dealer, Service Manager says:



"Engine will run (not great) but will run without Crankshaft Position or Camshaft Position Sensors connected or working. " (True or False?)



"Engine will run without transfer pump working but at reduced performance and will cause Injector Pump to fail in the future if not replaced soon enough. " (True or False?)



"Injector Pump requires added fuel from Transfer Pump to enable proper cooling. " (True or False?)



He gave me a schematic and said, "Jumping pin #7 "12v supply" on Injector Pump to the battery and pin #6 "ground" to block, will bypass ECM and allow engine to start but not able to accelerate, thus determining if Injector Pump is bad. (True or False?)

When attempting this I found the pins not numbered on plug but found the proper pins by ohming out to ground and checking for 12v w/ignition on.





ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!! Starting day #3 on this troubleshooting...

 

[Alan Reagan]

Sounds like the crankshaft position sensor is intermittent or the VP44 is going out. I'd try the CPS first.

 

[troynkaren]

What is the VP44???

 

[litespeed]

If your lift pump has died once. I assume it was probably driven for some time that way without you knowing.



The VP44 is suffering and possibly on the way out (if it is not already).



The VP44 is the injection pump. All your questions above relating to the VP44 are true.



I'm not sure about jumping pins to see if the pump is bad or not?



I would start with the CPS and go from there.







AJ

 

[FourBarR]

vp-44 is the fuel injection pump.

 

[troynkaren]

More Answers Today

Thanks to those who've replied.



A man considered the best Diesel mech in our city, gave me a return call today. He said:



The 2000 year Dodges were a ******* model year. Basically, if you have a Crankshaft Position Sensor AND a Camshaft Position Sensor, plus your Transfer Pump is electronically activated by cranking the engine and then it shuts off within 15 secs after shutdown it is basically a 1999 Cummins. My Dad's is just that.



If there is no Crankshaft Position Sensor and the Transfer Pump activates when the ignition is turned on, it is considered a 2000 Cummins. The Camshaft Position Sensor is a combined sensor, then taking up the role of the Crankshaft Position Sensor too.



He said the Crankshaft Position Sensor has nothing to do with the fact the engine will not "run". It only determines when the transfer pump activates by the engine cranking and sends a signal to the Tachometer.



The Camshaft Position Sensor is the only sensor in the mix that, if bad, will not allow the engine to run.



He concurs that if the Transfer Pump failed along the line, that WILL eventually cause the Fuel Injection Pump (VP44) to fail at an undetermined point. It is not a myth or rumor, it is fact. By adding half a bottle of a certain injector conditioner into the fuel filter bowl, I maybe able to delay the Injection Pump's fate a little longer.



Thanks again!

 

[Devan Manis]

He said the Crankshaft Position Sensor has nothing to do with the fact the engine will not "run". It only determines when the transfer pump activates by the engine cranking and sends a signal to the Tachometer

not all true, when mine was on the fritz sometimes the engine would just idle and other times it would miss like a mad Biat** and other times die, mine is a 2000 as well, i would replace the ckp, then start saving for a vp44, because if its not dead completely its deffinatly on its way out.

 

[JHSchultz]

"The 2000 year Dodges were a ******* model year. "



I prefer to think of the 2K trucks as "Special Limited Production"

 

[troynkaren]

not all true, when mine was on the fritz sometimes the engine would just idle and other times it would miss like a mad Biat** and other times die, mine is a 2000 as well, i would replace the ckp, then start saving for a vp44, because if its not dead completely its deffinatly on its way out.

The key is, your's would run. This one will not start at all, just crank with the starter.



Thanks. .

 

[Devan Manis]

The key is, your's would run. This one will not start at all, just crank with the starter.



Thanks. .

so what exactly is your point? I was only trying to tell you that just because the "mechanic said" its not exactly true, don't change your sensor, and if it still doesn't run, or it runs like crap after you change the vp don't say i didn't tell you so.

 

[RRotzal]

My 2000 died a few weeks ago,,,,,would crank and crank just no start, tried disconnecting the crank sensor and still no start. REPLACED the crank sensor and she runs like new.

 

[Utah Willie]

fuel delivery woes

My '99 3500 has just become lazy and will not respond to the throttle as it once did. It seems to be lively in first gear but gets increasingly "lazy" in the higher gears giving me a top speed of 75 on the flat. The EGT barely gets to 800 and the boost to 10. I have an Edge Comp chip and any setting has no effect on performance. Hills are a killer with the least of them slowing me to as low as 50 MPH, WOT, and the tougher ones proportionately worse. Fuel filter is 400 miles new and when checked today, appeared as new. Could this relate to the preceding thread? I am calling a mechanic tomorrow but usually, they are weeks in arrears on appointments.

 

[Devan Manis]

My '99 3500 has just become lazy and will not respond to the throttle as it once did. It seems to be lively in first gear but gets increasingly "lazy" in the higher gears giving me a top speed of 75 on the flat. The EGT barely gets to 800 and the boost to 10. I have an Edge Comp chip and any setting has no effect on performance. Hills are a killer with the least of them slowing me to as low as 50 MPH, WOT, and the tougher ones proportionately worse. Fuel filter is 400 miles new and when checked today, appeared as new. Could this relate to the preceding thread? I am calling a mechanic tomorrow but usually, they are weeks in arrears on appointments.

do you have any codes? it sounds to me like a bad map sensor. thats where i would start.

 

[troynkaren]

That sounds just like what my Dad was experiencing with his 00 when I found out the transfer pump was inop. I am told and experienced with his truck before the Injection Pump died, that the Transfer Pump being inop will do this. Can you hear the Transfer Pump still buzzing or humming up to 15 seconds after turning the key off or shutting down the engine?



Everyone says if the Transfer Pump goes, the Injection Pump is soon to follow if not almost immediately because the Transfer Pump gives the boost of fuel needed to cool the Injection Pump.



Dodge has a modification kit ($400+) that moves the Transfer Pump from the left side of the engine behind the Fuel Filter, to in the fuel tank. It is a job!



Hope this helps.