Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 2001 24 valve HO no start

[Gordon Maney]

I have a 2001 24V Cummins powered Ram. It is the HO version, with 6-speed transmission. It has been running fine. In 2007 a Cummins dealer replaced the Cummins computer on the truck, as it quit running right, and virtually quit running. No problems since.

Two days ago I drove in the yard, stopped, and raised one window. It stalled. I cranked it, it started fine, I moved it forward a few feet and then shut it off.

The next day I got in it to go somewhere. It started fine, moved forward a few feet and than quit. It would not start. It cranks fine.

The truck still has the original lift pump and injection pump at 129,000 miles. In 2007 that original lift pump still tested good, as per the Cummins dealer. Obviously, I don't know about it now. My intentions for a long time have been to add a fuel pressure gauge, but I regret to say I have not yet done so.

I intend to look at the diagnostic information in the service manual and try to retrieve the codes. I have no sophisticated test equipment.

My general question is this: Do you have thoughts as to a strategy I should pursue to revolve this problem, based upon your experience.

 

[DIESELWRKS]

cycle your keys to get codes.

1. put keys in turn forward without starting truck,turn keys back to same position. do this 3 times on 3rd time leave key in forward position. again your not starting truck. this will display codes on your odometer. when you get your codes post em up and we can help you better. also other things when was the last fuel filter change you did. and yes you need to get a fuel pressure gauge

 

[BDaugherty]

Blue Chip Diesel Performance Specialists



Use this website to troubleshoot your lift pump or injection pump. Buy a fuel pressure gauge to use for troubleshooting and for future reference.

 

[Gordon Maney]

cycle your keys to get codes.
1. put keys in turn forward without starting truck,turn keys back to same position. do this 3 times on 3rd time leave key in forward position. again your not starting truck. this will display codes on your odometer. when you get your codes post em up and we can help you better. also other things when was the last fuel filter change you did. and yes you need to get a fuel pressure gauge

I get these results:

P ECU
P DONE

P PCU
P DONE

I regret to admit I have not changed the fuel filter for about 20-25,000 miles.

Interestingly, after sitting a day, it started right up, ran for about two minutes and then stopped again. No sputter, just like you turned off the key. It would not start again, just like before.

 

[mhenon]

For starters why don't you change that fuel filter. It sounded electrical at first but with no codes it might be something else.

Mike

 

[DIESELWRKS]

does your lift pump what ever you have on it. does it make noise and cycle when you bump your keys like your going to start the truck but dont actually start the truck this will trigger your fuel pump to cycle for about 25 seconds. does it do this. check all lines for signs of a leak. forward of your fuel pump should be easy to spot due to its on the pressure side. before your lift pump is on the suction side little harded to see if you have air leak. check your fuel filter canister area. also check all battery connections and while your at it make sure your air filter isnt really dirty/choked. when it starts up and runs how does it sound really fast idle, normal any noticeable smoke, excessive smoke. etc. etc.

 

[Gordon Maney]

For starters why don't you change that fuel filter. It sounded electrical at first but with no codes it might be something else.
Mike

I will change it tonight.

 

[Gordon Maney]

does your lift pump what ever you have on it; does it make noise and cycle when you bump your keys like your going to start the truck but dont actually start the truck this will trigger your fuel pump to cycle for about 25 seconds. does it do this.

check all lines for signs of a leak. forward of your fuel pump should be easy to spot due to its on the pressure side. before your lift pump is on the suction side little harder to see if you have air leak. check your fuel filter canister area. also check all battery connections and while your at it make sure your air filter isnt really dirty/choked. when it starts up and runs how does it sound really fast idle, normal any noticeable smoke, excessive smoke. etc. etc.

I will check all these things tonight.

 

[Gordon Maney]

A summary of present circumstances.

I brought home an OBDII scanner, loaned to me. It finds no codes.

I replaced the fuel filter. First it started, then quit. Not surprisingly, I suppose, I cranked a bit, and then it started again. It does not quit now, running at idle, and with some blipping of the throttle.

I am going to inspect the air filter, as a person suggested.

I do not hear lift pump humming when you bump the starter, although I admit I have never heard it hum for any length of time when you do that starter bump test, during these eight years I have owned it.

I hate to take off down the country road from here and have it quit again, so I think I will run it around the place for a while and see what it does.

I remembered I have a new lift pump I bought as a spare from Cummins, some years ago.

I read the procedure in the manual for replacement. It directs me to remove the starter. Is that how you are doing it? ... or do you do it from above? I am interested in your thoughts on that.

Back outside... .

 

[Gordon Maney]

I checked the air filter and it looked great.

I started it again, let it idle, raised the engine speed a number of times, then backed up, turned to the side and took off across the place. About 50 feet later it just stopped. Just like you shut off the key. No cough, sputter, or stumble.

If the lift pump was bad, I would not think it would start like this again after sitting.

Thoughts?

Also, thoughts on the lift pump replacement procedure?

Thank you... .

 

[BDaugherty]

You NEED to read the VP44 and lift pump diagnostic on Blue Chip's website. Period.



A VP44 equipped truck will draw enough fuel to run without a lift pump. However, the VP44 will starve for fuel and quit. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge, buy one. You can get a gauge for under $50. The cheapest VP44 I've seen is a little over $1000. Spend a little now or spend a lot later.



I change the lift pumps from the top. It's a little hard to reach, but the process is very simple.

 

[Gordon Maney]

You NEED to read the VP44 and lift pump diagnostic on Blue Chip's website. Period.

I did.

A VP44 equipped truck will draw enough fuel to run without a lift pump. However, the VP44 will starve for fuel and quit. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge, buy one. You can get a gauge for under $50. The cheapest VP44 I've seen is a little over $1000. Spend a little now or spend a lot later.

By pressure gauge, are you meaning a test gauge connected underhood, with the gauge underhood, or are you meaning one in the passenger compartment?

I change the lift pumps from the top. It's a little hard to reach, but the process is very simple.

Do you remove the filter housing?

 

[CPavlic]

There is no need to remove the filter housing. It should have three 13 mm nuts and one 10mm bolt holding the pump on. Now I take the banjo bolt at the filter housing out instead of at the transfer pump, it is much easier to get to. The feed line is just a quick connect. just squeeze the two blue tabs and pull down on the rubber fuel line. Be sure and spray the nuts with some WD 40 or alike, they tend to stick and then the stud come loose from the pump which makes for an extra step which isnt always fun. And besides the electrical connector, thats it. Not a big project, just a little tight to get to for your first time.

 

[Gordon Maney]

There is no need to remove the filter housing. It should have three 13 mm nuts and one 10mm bolt holding the pump on. Now I take the banjo bolt at the filter housing out instead of at the transfer pump, it is much easier to get to. The feed line is just a quick connect. just squeeze the two blue tabs and pull down on the rubber fuel line. Be sure and spray the nuts with some WD 40 or alike, they tend to stick and then the stud come loose from the pump which makes for an extra step which isnt always fun. And besides the electrical connector, thats it. Not a big project, just a little tight to get to for your first time.

Thank you!

 

[Gordon Maney]

If someone else was telling me about these symptoms I would wonder if a screen in the tank was restricted.

When it runs that short period of time, it runs great, has good throttle response, and drove well [albeit for two minutes] around the yard, even in somewhat of a burst of speed.

Then, it was as if the key was shut off.

Several times in the past when I tried to use the lift pump to fill the filter housing, I had no real luck with that. Then, one time later when it was at the Cummins dealer as a result of a computer failure, they said they tested it and it was fine. ??? I have no hearing problem, but I don't hear it and don't seen an effect.

I will replace the lift pump with my new spare, probably tonight.

I assume there is a screen in the tank. Do those often cause problems, or is it coarse due to the fine, final filtration?

Thank you for all the help.

 

[DIESELWRKS]

well my thoughts are regardless you should be able to hear your pump cycle when you bump the starter. long ago on past diesel's before I switched them to fass pumps on the only OEM lift pump that I replaced. it stopped making any sound and couldnt prime my system when I changed my fuel filter. I changed the fuel pump and bingo I had prime. and it made sound. cant tell no one can tell if you have or are doing damage to the vp. my only episode with my in the take when I dropped my tank and replaced it with a drawstraw and the filter/screen was not bad but gunked up. Vulcan compound turbo components, FireBall injectors, DrawStraw™, Big Line Kits, VP silicone boot kits, gauge installation components, metric adapters & fittings, FASS, Quadzilla, Edge,AirDog, DTT Trans, ISSPRO, HTT Turbo, AFE, Veg pumps,  brackets, has good fuel related products to help you. lift pumps and lines etc. etc. as far as the fuel pressure gauge get a mechanical one. you can plug it to alot of places. I have a t-fitting just prior to my VP-44 to get reading so I know what I have going into my injection pump. I ran fuel line up to a needle valve to a isolator and then clear tubing inside fire wall and under neath behind where my transfer case lever is.

 

[Gordon Maney]

I tried starting it again to move it back to the shop, hoping it would run long enough to make it. I just got there and it stopped. It would then start again, but stop quickly, next it did very little, but did try.

I did get a code this time. P1694.

I am going to replace the lift pump now.

 

[BDaugherty]

Amazon.com: Actron CP7818 Fuel Pressure Tester Kit: Automotive



Something like this works well with the test hose that geno's sells. Using the test hose, it will screw onto one of the schrader valves. I also have one of the tapped banjo bolts with a quick connect for testing trucks without the factory test ports.



I have a fuel psi gauge in the cab, but I'm not saying that you have to have one, too. If you follow Blue Chip's diagnostics, it's fairly simple. If you have power, ground, and fuel, your truck should start and idle. If it doesn't, it's the VP44. It's very possible that you have a fuel problem, but you'll never troubleshoot it without the gauge. A year or so ago, I bought a gauge just like the one in the link I posted from Autozone. Then I just adapted a hose to work with a tapped banjo bolt. Later on, a friend changed his setup and gave me the adapter hose that Geno's sells for use with either a gauge or switch.



Yes, there is a screen in the tank. It looks like a sock hanging off the end of the pickup assembly. It's course filtration meant mainly to keep trash out of the lift pump and from blocking the fuel line. First, I would verify that loss of fuel is causing your truck to shut off. I wouldn't just start throwing fuel system parts at it. Also, when it starts, does it run rough or does it idle smooth right away? If it's a fuel problem, when it does start, it will usually run rought for a few seconds until the air gets out of the lines. If it's electrical or the computer on the VP44, it will either not run at all, or start and idle smooth right out of the box.

 

[Gordon Maney]

I just came in from the most recent episode. I replaced the lift pump. Not that this is important, but I did remove the filter housing, as it made it quite a bit easier.

Interestingly, since my next start had a lot of air in lines that I had drained during filter housing removal, it started pretty easily. I cracked the number one injector fitting and cranked until it flowed, and it started. It idled nicely, then ran for quite a time, including at speeds of up to 1900-2200. No apparent problems.

I was about to drive it around the yard when it dropped out again like I had shut off a switch. It started again easily, ran a while longer, nicely, and then stopped just the same. Two more starts had it running shorter periods of time, then it would not run again.

I guess, at heart, I am a carburetor equipped, gasoline engine guy, so it makes me feel the fuel supply is being interrupted, but that does not account for electrical and computer issues.

I will get this gauge you recommend and continue. Any other thoughts are appreciated.....

A postscript. The gauge shows 1/4 tank. I think I will put three or four gallons of fuel in it to see if that helps. I have read that here, too.

 

[Chief USA]

I just came in from the most recent episode. I replaced the lift pump. Not that this is important, but I did remove the filter housing, as it made it quite a bit easier.



Interestingly, since my next start had a lot of air in lines that I had drained during filter housing removal, it started pretty easily. I cracked the number one injector fitting and cranked until it flowed, and it started. It idled nicely, then ran for quite a time, including at speeds of up to 1900-2200. No apparent problems.



I was about to drive it around the yard when it dropped out again like I had shut off a switch. It started again easily, ran a while longer, nicely, and then stopped just the same. Two more starts had it running shorter periods of time, then it would not run again.



I guess, at heart, I am a carburetor equipped, gasoline engine guy, so it makes me feel the fuel supply is being interrupted, but that does not account for electrical and computer issues.



I will get this gauge you recommend and continue. Any other thoughts are appreciated.....



A postscript. The gauge shows 1/4 tank. I think I will put three or four gallons of fuel in it to see if that helps. I have read that here, too.

Gordon,



P1694 = No CCD Messages Received From ECM.



Order a fuel pressure test gauge



http://www.vulcanperformance.com/Fuel-Pressure-Tester-with-Schrader-Connection-p/fpt.htm



Hook up the gauge on the schrader valve test port on the VP-44. Bump the starter, note pressure. Next start the engine, note pressure. If less than 12 psi, the lift pump is bad and should be replaced.



If you are gonna go with an OEM stock type pump, get the Aertex pump from your local NAPA or Oreilly auto parts store:



More Information for AIRTEX E7153



RockAuto Parts Catalog



You MUST have a minimum of 12 psi at ALL times or potential damage to the VP-44 can happen.



The best albeit expensive fix is an Air Dog or FASS.



Once you have verified good fuel pressure and clean filter and the engine will run you still need to conduct a full power pull in high gear to see what your fuel pressure will drop to.



Once you have 5 successful no fault starts, the ECM should clear the P1694 fault code.



You still need to troubleshoot what caused the P1694. A bad ECM, corrosson on ECM plug, bad grounds, bad batteries can wreak havoc with the ECM.



Good luck and hope this helps.