Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 2001 ate lift pump, then injection pump!

[Texas Diesel]

Gary, whats the bypass for? There is a check valve in there somewhere right? Why?

 

[richardleonard]

Pusher Pump PE4100

Check out this site for the above mentioned PE4100 - there is a whole thread in the products forum along with other solutions to this issue. .

http://www.productengr.com/PE_4300.htm

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I claimed I would make no more posts here - and shouldn't even have read the thread, but it's probably a good thing I did, now that the smoke has cleared some...



"guess what? If you're not a member, you're not allowed to search the forums. And it's folly to think that every diesel Ram owner is a TDR member. "



That's true - but the non-members can't POST here either - and it's reasonable to assume that any who DO post also have access to search capabilities... Nuff said!



My sincere apologies to the original poster, and the rest of the group - but in defense, coming in here armed with nothing but complaints and durogatory comments about the same truck *I* drive, is pretty much like walking into a biker bar and knocking Harleys to the assembled crowd - won't win you many friends... BUT, ask for HELP on ANY issue, and stand back, you'll be virtually flooded with with helpful info!





JG - welcome, yer among friends!



As to specific questions concerning my own pusher install, and what it does - look here:



http://216.235.147.117/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59880&highlight=evolution



I'll be happy to respond to any additional questions...



Cheers

 

[JyRO]

jzaremski - I agree! I have yet to do one thing about the LP. I shouldn't have to. Is it acceptable to me to go spend $100 to $175 to add something that will *probably* fix or delay a LP problem? He11 no. Would I do it to avoid the problem? Probably, but I haven't yet. My truck has a skosh under 45,000 miles, and luckily it hasn't had a single problem yet. I'm not gaged yet (OH NO! HOW CAN I GO ON?), but will be shortly, and probably will get the fuel pressure gage too. Something about my mortgage keeps getting put ahead of gages, pusher pumps, mentals, comp boxes, ladder bars, BHAF, 10" straight pipes (cause 9" in pipes just aren't good enough any more), stacks, optima batteries, fuel additives, and different size turbo housings (oh, and don't forget the etc, etc). I can't image why I don't just fill up the grocery cart with all these necessary supplies.



JGallops - As far as Gary goes, everyone who has ever even saw a Cummins Ram on the road knows that he lives on a different planet. He just comes down here frequently, types a reply, and tries to make others feel inadequate in order to make himself feel "big. " If you didn't just know that, there's just gotta be something wrong with ya. If you need to know more, do a search for, "Those who need to go take a flying leap. " You may find me in there too.



- JyRO

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Nice to have my own, personal, stalking, rooting section...



YOU have a nice day there too, Jyro...

 

[JGallops]

JyRO, I hear you on the expense part. I hadn't planned on buying gages right now. I also agree with jzaremski that I shouldn't have to worry about the LP.



However, now that I know what I know, it would be dumb of me not to put gages on the truck. Hopefully the dealer does not think this is a modification that voids the warranty.



Given what I have read in the past 24 hours, I don't think I can afford to be my own warranty station. I need the Cummins 100K warranty. Eating an injection pump says I do.



I am not sure if the dealer thinks a pusher pump would void the warranty?



There was a post earlier in this thread that looks like it would be a rock solid replacement for the LP. I would do it if DC says it doesn't void the warranty.



What I do find unpleasant and had me in a good burn since I made the original post is the dealer's statement there is no fix yet. So it looks like I may be in a catch 22 position. Maybe I can fix the LP issues with another manufacturers product, but it may void my warranty which I might need if there is a design defect in the injection pump.



I don't know the answers to any of this.



If I was flush with money, I wouldn't bother with the warranty and just go do my own thing and be my own warranty station. Right now I can't afford that. That is why I went with a $35K truck that should last.



So now I am doing exactly what Gary said everybody here was doing (and others in this thread said we shouldn't have to do) and that is making modifications to get around original design defects.



The correct thing from the DC side is to admit the problem, say they are working on it and issue a recall when they figure it out. I can live with that. It is called honesty and respect for your customers.



Of course maybe that is too much to ask in todays economy. I suppose its "you pay your money and you take your chances".



I feel like I am ranting again (must be due to lack of Ram). So I guess I will shut up.



JGallops

Dead 2001 HO

 

[Wheaties]

No, you aren't ranting. I think we've all gotten so used to this problem that we take it for granted. In DC and Cummins defense, they've probably gone through at least three different pumps as replacements, I think they've changed the part number that many times, anyway.



My experience with two different dealers is this was the first they'd heard of it. So far as they were concerned, this was almost never a problem. Do I believe them? I'll say there's a chance that they were telling the truth. I also think there's a chance that TDR members have a much higher awareness of the potential for the problem because we read about it here! Isn't it possible that the problem seems far worse to us active TDR readers simply because we hear about it from the dozens who have had a problem, the squeaky wheels so to speak, while there are thousands who have never had a problem and never said 'Boo'? I mean, to me having read the TDR, I got the impression that everyone has had this problem and that all the lift pumps are failing.



My best guess, says the truth is somewhere in between. Not everyone has had this problem, but there are a few more having this problem than the dealership (and DC) would like to admit.



Matt

 

[GLASMITHS]

matt

You hit the nail on the head. There are not that many failures, in comparison to the total. Mine is 85K and still hummin. . OOO defects.



Now one thing on the pumps that has been overlooked - those who have high mileage and no failures, we don't run our tanks empty; or rather less than half full. On a trip I always use the bed tank and it never has less than 50 gallons for cooling

 

[Mike Ellis]

JGallops,



As illustrated in this thread several guys have come up with interesting fixes to take the load off the stock pump, using pushers etc. I don't know much at all about the electronic pump engines, but all the debate makes me scratch my head and wonder how Ford and Chevy keep sufficient fuel hosing into their larger displacement engines without the same sort of failures we see with the 24V lift pumps. Makes you wonder if a stock Ford or Chevy lift pump might be sufficient to solve the problem - I asked about this before but don't remember anybody answering.



Maybe the only answer is to put a Cummins 5. 9B-based irrigation pump into the bed of the truck and continually feed fuel into a large gravity tank balanced on the hood.....

 

[Bob Cochran]

JGallops



I understand completely should not have to spend $100's after buying $35,000 truck. Like I said earlier 46,000 miles no LP or VP-44 yet and may not for a long time, lets hope so.



I know several people with Chevy's and Fords and they all have problems one way or another. I love my truck and will put up the minor problems. It is not that I am independently wealthy either.



I have guages and my dealer has not voided warrantly. Left pump the dealer vary well couldvoid. Specially if you have a VP-44 failure with the other LP added. For now I will not be adding the other LP but maybe later after 100. 000 miles.

 

[JGallops]

Hi Bob,



Yes, I think you are right. Anything like a pusher or a replacement LP will probably void the warranty. I will certainly replace the LP with something else after 100K miles. Am going to ask the dealer on Monday if it will void the warranty. If they say no, then I will ask for it in writing from DC. However, I think the odds of that happening are zero.



Guess I will just have to watch the LP pressure on the gages and run to the dealer when things start dropping.



Somebody asked on another thread if the LP is covered by the 100K warranty? Not sure about this at all. Will also ask the dealer when I see them on Monday.



Also in response to GLASMITHS and Wheaties, my dealer is well aware of the LP failures. Said they had a lot of those and a few injection pump failures. Mine happened to be one of them.



Also, I think my LP was gone for at least a month. The truck was running poorly and I had no real idea until it quit. Guess the VP44 was sucking the fuel. Dealer said there was 0 pressure from the LP.



JGallops

Dead 2001 HO

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

It seems most dealers cover the lift pump to 100k. Some refuse. Some also refuse, if your oil pressure drops to 0 psi, to replace your motor if its damaged. Depends on where you go. If all else fails they are 150 bucks and 45 min install. Better have an ase mechanic install it. To cover your butt. But this is way down the road.

I am on my third lift pump and third injection pump. But thats another story.

There are certain overbearing people on here trying desperately to sound intelligent. Thats why we have an ignore button.

 

[danandamy]

J Gallops, your story sounds a bit fishy Do you have a VIN number for the truck? Hmmmmm?



Oh, did I mention... ... .



12 VALVES RULE!!!!!!!!!!



dan

 

[andrewkoperdak]

Jgallops,

I have a 2001 and had my lift pump replace (it failed) at 11,000 miles. I had just put my gauges in at around 7,000 and noticed that the lift pump wasn't at 100% even back then. Dealer told me some numbers to watch for and when I hit them he replaced my pump. I have had some other minor warr. issues but I like my truck. It is 32K young. I feel it will easily get to 200K the way that I take care of it.

R,

Andy

 

[JGallops]

Dan,



Interesting comment about 12 valves. The dealer's diesel mechanic said he could do anything with the 12 valve engines, but was a parts swapper with the 24 valve engines.





AKoperdak,



The odd thing with my failure is everything is stock. I could understand this if I had bombed the truck, but nothing has been done to it. Also, to have so catastrophic a failure certainly was a surprise to me... . then, but after spending days reading the TDR postings, I see there have been a few other like me with VP44 failures too.



So it would seem these failure have little to do with bombing the truck or not! There seems to be some defect somewhere.



JGallops

Dead 2001 HO

 

[tarussell]

This is in response to Mike Ellis's earlier post about Ford and GM lift pumps. I was at my favorite Chevy parts store and started talking to a good parts guy about the lift pump problems and he said they go through a lot of lift pumps on the GM's as well. I have no idea what kind of pump that GM is running or if it is in the same catagory as ours but they are having problems too.



I am keeping a spare pump on the shelf until I do enough research to determine the best way to deal with it. Hope this helps, Thomas

 

[andrewkoperdak]

JGallops,

I was 100% stock less gauges when my lift pump failed. Earlier in the summer in 111 degree heat my truck started lobing ( rpm bounce of 100-300 at idle). This was around 4k miles too! I suspect that was my V44 pump over heating do to a poor performing lift pump. Mine hasn't failed yet but you can bet you bottom dollar I worry about it. Dealer told me not to worry about it, "probably normal". Anyway, I was surprised by my failure at 7K but there was plenty of hype on the TDR so I was watching my fuel pressure anyway. I also had my rear axle (pinion) seal, oil pressure sending unit, xmission leak, ECM reflashed, noise in dash and door noise seviced under 10K miles. I haven't had any repeat nor new problems since 10K and I am at 32K now.

R,

Andy

 

[Wheaties]

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

You hit the nail on the head. There are not that many failures, in comparison to the total. Mine is 85K and still hummin. . OOO defects.



Now one thing on the pumps that has been overlooked - those who have high mileage and no failures, we don't run our tanks empty; or rather less than half full. On a trip I always use the bed tank and it never has less than 50 gallons for cooling

Thanks! And you make an excellent point. Having fuel in the tank may contribute significantly to reducing wear on the lift pump. Not going below 1/4 say, probably reduces load and will make it live longer.



Still, I agree that it shouldn't be a problem. I feel that this is a design flaw.



My story is that I started getting low pump pressures during normal driving, say about 2psi pre-filter. But it came and went, so I was nervous about getting it to fail at the dealership. I also took the EZ out before my visit, though the DDII's stayed in. The mechanic was pleased that he didn't have to install a gauge to determine fuel pressure, and he was able to get it to drop right down to nothing under hard acceleration.



Later, when he saw the Espar in the way of the lift pump, he just about freaked. I had to accept and pay for any additional time he spent working around it, fair enough. This issue worked out quite well, as he realized he could get the starter out quickly enough, and work from below.



What is relevant to this thread, is that the new lift pump wasn't exactly stellar, I could still get it to drop below the magic 8psi under hard acceleration. But it isn't failing like the old pump was either. Is this due to the larger injectors? Possibly. I can still draw the pressure down to about 2psi on a long uphill onramp under hard acceleration. My guess is that I should move to a pusher pump and buy a spare lift pump to cover my butt.



In any case, I'm glad to hear that the Dodge Service desk is aware of the problem, and that the average Joe has a good chance that this will get fixed without much argument. There's hope that DC will address the problem and fix it.



Matt

 

[jmeehan]

Uh guys... I don't think Dodge is going to find a fix for our failing lift pump problem. They're busy building and selling '03's. What do they use for a lift pump anyway?

It costs them less to replace a bunch of lift pumps for the life of the warrenty (then we're on our own) then it does to R & D a real fix. Look at the way ford has treated the cackling powerstrokes.

At least this problem, if you catch it before the injection pump is damaged, is relatively minor.

If this were a safety or emmissions related problem they'd probably have to address it.

My own lift pump has gone 23,000 miles with no problems, yet. I've had gauges since about 10,000 miles. I rarely let my tank get much below half, to keep condensation to a minimum, unless I'm on a trip.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Originally posted by 85CJ. I rarely let my tank get much below half, to keep condensation to a minimum, unless I'm on a trip. [/B]

And this is when you really need a good supply of fuel. It does not require employment at NASA to figure out that the VP44 requires a good supply (xtra)this is why a long time back, BEFORE my knowing about the TDR I started this practice, along with STANADYNE Lubricity formula



It also bothers me that all this stuff has to be done; especially when THEY have to know that something is wrong. Just like Firestone and Ford on the tires. They knew for many years that something was wrong