2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission 2001 steering conversion???

[Ted Constantine]

I have to replace the right inner and outer TRE's on my truck as they are both shot. The dealer prices are high and aftermarket options are proving to be difficult to nail down. Specificly the right outer rod which is the bulk of the drag link, may not actually be produced by MOOG. I was thinking about converting to the 98-99 inverted T setup that was used on the heavy duty models in that time frame.



The question is does anyone know the difference in the tapers of the TRE's between those years and if the conversion is possible?



All opinions welcome



Thanks

Ted

 

[Heavy Metal]

I was hoping that this was not a problem on these trucks since my first set stayed tight for 91,000 miles. At that time I replaced the rod end on the pitman arm. I replaced the same end again at 117,000 miles. Now, at 125,000, it's loose again. I'm now seriously looking into the Bulletproof system at www.bulletproofsteering.com. It replaces the stock "Y" configuration with a straight tie rod type arrangement. In other words, the tie rod goes from knuckle to knuckle and the drag link goes from the pitman arm to the TOP of the knuckle mount and bolts straight through. A string line stretched from the pitman arm to the top of the knuckle runs straight into the lower sway bar link mount. A downward bend is required to clear it (outward bends put undesireable rotational stress on the heim joints). I am in the process of building a template out of conduit with washers tig welded to the ends that I can bolt into place with the frame on jackstands with the axle at full droop and the right wheel turned all the way to the right to make sure there is no contact anywhere. Since the control arms move on an arc, this is the point at which the drag link will be rotated closest to the spring mounts. Randy at bulletproof steering assures me they can duplicate my template exactly if I send it to him. If it fits with no problems, then this system will be on my truck. $600 seems a little pricey, but then again, so is replacing this one little end every ten to fifteen thousand miles at $127 a pop from DC. I just bit the bullet and bought one to buy myself some time to make precise measurements and fitment checks for the bulletproof system. Heim joints are tougher, wear better, and are easier to replace (no pickle forks, pullers, or beating on the knuckle nessecary) than ball-stud joints. If for some reason I can't make this work, then I would be real interested to see an answer to Ted's question. I'll keep ya'll posted.



Bryan

 

[Ted Constantine]

Bryan,



I have looked at a number of options. Bulletproof is not on my list of possibilties because I am completly anti hemi joints when it comes to steering. TREs are used for a reason, they absorb some of the shock in the system. When you switch to heims it amplifies the forces and stresses on the steering box which we all know is a weak link anyway. Heims are a great option for building a rock crawler or other offroad rig but have no place on street vehicle.



The 98-99 HD steering set up is an inverted T instead of the Y to the tie rod from knuckle to knuckle is one piece and suspension movement does not effect your allingment. The question is can our knuckles and pitman arms be retapered to the 98-99 specs? or is the taper already larger than 98-99?



This is a good link for home made options but you would have to bend the tie rod to clear the pumpkin on the 60 as this example is on a 44.

http://www.pavementsucks.com/tech/steeringupgrade.php



I would love to hear some good options or some one say that you can bore out our parts to work with the earlier setup. The parts a relatively cheap from moog.



Ted

 

[willyslover]

watching this with interest... 'bout to remane my rig Rut Hntr or Rut Lzrd

 

[pcorssmit]

Keep in mind that if you are running the drag link to the top of the knuckle, you will need to swap the pitman arm in order to keep the drag link parallel to the trac bar.



Also, I would stay away from heims on a street truck. I have them on the steering on my Blazer, and as stated above while they do have their place, its not on the steering on a street truck. TREs will usually provide longer service and better fit than the typical heim steering installation.



Are you sure the taper is different on the newer knuckles?



Pete

 

[Ted Constantine]

Pete I am not 100% sure of anything at this point. I need to get to a napa and see the TREs from 98-99 and 2000+ side by side. I am going to switch to the invetered t but exactly how is up in the air at this point.



You said the pitman are was different between yours and the 98-99 right? i wonder if may D25 spring will fix that issue?



I will try to do alot of the leg work on this over the weekend and post anything I can find. i really wish the 2000+ truck still had the better older dana 60 so I could just switch to 1 ton ford knuckles and hub and build a real cross over steering but they don't.



Ted

 

[pcorssmit]

Yeah I really wish mine had the old style axle too, the 60 front in my Blazer is much easier to deal with and more durable.



The pitman arm changes (in theory at least) in order to keep the drag link parallel to the trac bar, if you just have replacement coils w/a stock track bar and mounts, the coils shouldn't have an affect on which pitman to use.



Pete

 

[Ted Constantine]

Pete I run a Dt track bar with the axle centered so the geometry change may work out. I will have to work it out on paper. We shall see.



Ted

 

[Heavy Metal]

Originally posted by Ted Constantine





TREs are used for a reason, they absorb some of the shock in the system. When you switch to heims it amplifies the forces and stresses on the steering box which we all know is a weak link anyway.



Ted [/B]

Good point. Never would have thought of it, but it makes sense. Proper fit of the Bulletproof system is customer's responsibility meaning, if it doesn't work, you're out the money. That's why i've been taking my time with the measurements, which might be a good thing. I may have just learned something. Gonna think about this a bit more. I'll be interested to see what comes out of this thread.

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by willyslover

watching this with interest...

I'm in the same camp!



I'm not sure "what all is out there" as options, But I would like to finish the job Chrysler started. The DSS helped my truck a great deal but there is still room for improvement.



I have 49K mostly freeway miles, so I imagine the fun is just starting for me.



I have read about:



Intermediate steering shafts going bad or out of spec.



Adjustments to the steering gear as well as replacement.

and stabilizing the steering gear/pitman arm... . DSS.



Tie rod joint replacements or alternate systems... . Lukes Links.



Track Bar replacements... . DT track bar and Bullet proof system.



Steering stabilizer replacements.



The fixes don't seem to be consistent for everyone. Some say DSS repairs all, although noticeably better in the wandering department... . there is still room for improvement to tighten up the steering on my truck.



I just want to learn how to diagnose my issues and fix them.



What type drive-ability problems has the DT track bar typically fixed?

wandering type problems? bump steer?



It seems to me All of the components seem like they would add play in the steering if they lose tolerance. Time to get out the shop manual as a start I guess.

 

[bmoeller]

Ted, found this on another thread- http://www.trademotion.com/partloca...8&model=Ram 2500 pickup&year=2001&catalogid=1

 

[jrobinson2]

pcorssmit

I thought you did this conversion? Did you have to change back?

Here is an earlier thread on this: Converting '97 Steering Linkage to '98-'99 (Inverted-Y --> Inverted-T

Jared

 

[Chipstien]

If anyone does this on a late model 2nd gen then make sure to take notes.

 

[Ted Constantine]

yes pete has done this but the older truck are supposed to have different tapers TREs. It is this that I am trying to quantify. As for today's effort: I checked out a couple of parts stores and no one has a TRE for the 2000+ trucks to compare to the older. I am trying to get one of each in my hands so I can measure them and determine if there is a difference in the stud and if that difference would allow the steering arms to be retapered. A new turn in this story is that I found part number at NAPA for a 98-99 sset up without any taper, just straight studs. Once again I have not been able to actually compare the parts in question.



Any way that is what I have and have not accomplished. If this will work I will do it with MOOG parts not dodge for sure.



bmoeller, I tried to look up the 98-99hd setup on that site and got very weird results. $405 for the tie rod? Very cool to be able to look up the prices though.





TEd

 

[Mille4212]

Watching in intrest too. It's pretty bad when my 78 Chevy truck and 70 CJ-5 steers better than my 2001 Dodge.

 

[Ted Constantine]

Well we have a consensus: a lot of us need an answer for our 2001s steering issues. I hope this is it. I ordered the parts today and they should be at the shop tonight or in the morning. Tomorrow we will see what other work is needed. All the parts are grease-able MOOG parts.



I will post the final product this week I hope.



Ted

 

[Ted Constantine]

NO DICE



had the parts side by side today finally and the 2000+ TREs have a larger stud than the 98-99. So without custom fab the inverted T idea is out. We thought about swapping the outers with older parts that were on hand but as it turns out the ball joints are exactly opposite the old style. I assume this has something to do with the higher weight capacity of the 2000+ axle, but who knows.



In the end we have ordered a MOOG TRE for the pitman arm end and a NAPA part for the right outer TRE as MOOG does not yet produce it. I will also replace the ball joints which are VERY VERY shot, especially the DS and put on a trailmaster steering stabilizer. Trailmaster SSV as it is a much stiffer unit than rancho makes.



hope this take care of my issues



Ted

 

[Heavy Metal]

Ted,



Looks like what you're saying is that, other than DC, the only replacement parts available for the steering linkage on the 2000-2002 CTDs are the pitman arm inner (Moog) and the passenger side outer (NAPA). Part numbers?



Thanks,

Bryan

 

[muchsnow]

I'm in the same camp!



I'm not sure "what all is out there" as options, But I would like to finish the job Chrysler started. The DSS helped my truck a great deal but there is still room for improvement.



I have 49K mostly freeway miles, so I imagine the fun is just starting for me.



I have read about:



Intermediate steering shafts going bad or out of spec.



Adjustments to the steering gear as well as replacement.

and stabilizing the steering gear/pitman arm... . DSS.



Tie rod joint replacements or alternate systems... . Lukes Links.



Track Bar replacements... . DT track bar and Bullet proof system.



Steering stabilizer replacements.



The fixes don't seem to be consistent for everyone. Some say DSS repairs all, although noticeably better in the wandering department... . there is still room for improvement to tighten up the steering on my truck.



I just want to learn how to diagnose my issues and fix them.



What type drive-ability problems has the DT track bar typically fixed?

wandering type problems? bump steer?



It seems to me All of the components seem like they would add play in the steering if they lose tolerance. Time to get out the shop manual as a start I guess.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067837&postcount=21

 

[muchsnow]

Watching in intrest too. It's pretty bad when my 78 Chevy truck and 70 CJ-5 steers better than my 2001 Dodge.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067837&postcount=21