2005 48RE shifting problems

[carld61]

I will try and make this short and to the point. 140,000 on truck no problems with transmission. Winter time one year ago I changed u joint on rear shaft. Truck was cold and been sitting a couple weeks. When getting in to test drive u joint I failed to remove the front large black rubber chock from the front wheel. Just playing around I decided to just drive over it. The chock dug in and would not let me pass. Still screwin around I pushed the chock and it dug into the concrete leaving about 4 foot of black mark with chock… tires never broke traction and then bumped it into 4x4 and rolled right over it. It took a lot to push that rubber chock with cummings weight on top of it. After putting it on road for test drive the truck would not shift from first gear. I drove it around the back streets until the transmission would warm up and shift passes 2nd to 3rd. Once transmission warmed up it would not shift in overdrive. Dodge did the last fluid change on truck as I was out of town several thousand miles ago, only said that because I assume they adjusted the bands.?? I checked fluid and it seemed very bubbly as air was present somehow. I’m not a transmission guy. I do however do almost all my other maintenance. I studied the truck driving it around and the final answer was, when cold you’re stuck in first. Once warm, say one mile at first gear speed the truck would skip second and go into 3rd and while in a medium temp “if you will” the truck will go into overdrive. Once completely warm the truck will shift right passed 2nd and not go into overdrive. No lights on dash. I removed the pan, oil was clean, no signs of clutches or metal. I looked at and adjusted suspected 2nd gear band by the book. No change after back on road. Haven’t used the truck for highway and when winter passed and the truck was used in hotter temps the transmission would skip right over second so no big deal around here. Just can’t go on highway fast with no overdrive. Having other vehicles I lived with it for now with best advice to remove and rebuild. I just couldn’t swallow that with no slipping or anything and clean pan.. I got more serious now that its colder again the truck takes a min to get passed 1st. Well just the other day a light came on dash check engine. I haven’t pulled the code but will after work today. Since the light came on it doesn’t have to warm, it just skips to 3rd and no overdrive still once warm. Bottom line.. light on dash now, skips second and goes in overdrive and pulls fine. Once warm on highway and it comes out of OD it won’t go back into OD and always skips second. Pulling down to second manually will not get you the gear either, no second gear. 2nd Band seems adjusted fine to me…. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 2005 dodge dually 4x4

 

[cerberusiam]

Are you sure the lock nut was backed off far enough whne you adjusted the set screw?

You have the indications of the band strut having fallen out of the fornt band, except the no OD. In which case time to chnage out the gov solenoid and transducer to see if that cures the problem. Either\both of them malfunctioning will cause OD issues and flaky shifting.

 

[carld61]

Thanks a bunch. Yes I think the nut was plenty loose. I adjusted it twice or 4 times and can’t imagine not having it loose enough all times. I have always adjusted the bands on all the dodges I have had over the years with no problems. The second time I adjusted it, I did it with the Pan off. Of course I didn’t know what I was looking at really but nothing had fallen in the pan or anything and the band adjuster stuff seemed to be where it’s supposed to be and working. I will do it again with pan off watching it all when I do the solenoids and all and see what happens.
I thought there must be a thermistor in something the way OD works until warm and also the shifting from 1st to second didn’t happen until it was warmed up a bit, until the light came on. Now that the light is on it will jump right to 3rd regardless of temp.
Thanks again for your help

 

[carld61]

By the way the codes read P1751 and P1754 Transmission Throttle Position Sensor and a actuator or something. Still trying to look that up

 

[carld61]

OK I found these codes in some old forums using google.
P1751 Chrysler Transmission Throttle Valve Position Sensor (TTVPS)
P1754 Chrysler Transmission Valve Actuator Stuck (TTVA)
Apparently when the trucks were new they had issues and there were lots of back orders on these parts. The Only bottom line forum I found, the folks had exact zero, none, no 2nd gear period. They stated the dealer installed these parts and truck worked great. Problem is they didn’t know which of the two parts were installed and end of old forum. Called the dealer locally and not much help. What they think the actuator is TTVPS was 407 dollars external of transmission. Also they have no idea what the TTVA is. Any help on finding the right priced parts.
about to call around part stores

 

[cerberusiam]

Both of the codes are for the TTVA motor, the external part they referenced. The motor has a sensor in it that tells position and if it goes bad the TCM cannot read position and set it. Both parts are in the TTVA motor.

You might get lucky and the TTVA motor be the issue, or not. Frequently that doesn't solve the problem and the source end up being in the vlave body. The TV throttle valve has a tendency to wear a groove in it and jam the valve as it is cycled. With a TV cable this manifests as a sticking throttle application at a certain position. With the TTVA motor it cause the TCM to think there is a problem with the motor.

Sonnax makes a repair kit for the TV throttle vlave that eliminates the issues. Quite often with the P1754 codes it ends up being a mechnaical failure in the VB not the TTVA motor causing the problem.

 

[carld61]

Thanks for that input although its scary and not what I want to hear. I believe I found a used TTVA to try and see what happens and I found the OD GOV Solenoid and Transducer for about 100 bucks each at advance auto. Seen some kits on eBay but not sure about them. I will look for the TTVA rebuild kit you mentioned and look into the Valve Body rebuild while I am resting to see what that entails if it ends up going that way. Really appreciate your advice and help.

 

[cerberusiam]

It is not a TTVA rebuild kit, it is a TV throttle valve replacement in the VB. The throttle valve that fails is what the TTVA motor actually operates. Try a different TTVA motro and see if that will fix it, might be a bad motor. If it doesn't you will likely have to go into the VB. It is actually a pretty simple process along with a shift kit to fix these little issues.

 

[carld61]

Thanks cerberusiam.. I been away from computer but have played with transmission a bit in an attempt to learn about this truck as I wont likely ever be able to replace it.. I need to learn to fix it. Aside from learning my 3rd front left wheel bearing was bad and changing it, I did in fact change the TTVA and the old discrepancy returned... no light, only shift to 3rd after truck warms up a bit and no overdrive once truck warms up. I removed the new TTVA because.. one I don't want to break it before I finish all repairs.. and two I prefer the shift to 3rd not waiting on truck to warm because this can take several mins. I left the TTVA off and put a bag over electrical connector and it works fine with no kick down power. I am only using it to take my dogs to play at the moment.
So I will look up the VB kit you mentioned and see what it takes to get it and install it. I never removed the valve body before much less rebuilt one. I am 53 and do all my maintenance other than transmission work. Not trying to get a new hobby I just want to be able to fix my truck without paying for a transmission rebuild every time I have an issue. I have the OD Gov transducer and solenoid ready to install when I figure out what I need for the VB. I was trying to see if any of this TTVA change would change the overdrive because all this happen at once after pushing a block of rubber across concrete. No change in overdrive shifts in and out fine until truck warms up and then doesn't work at all. As you said it is likely all in the VB and for whatever reason the TTVA broke as well after running it. Off to see SONNAX about getting a rebuild kit, any particular shift kit I need to ask for that you mentioned otherwise I will ask to speak to a tech there at SONNAX. Also any recommended video or anything on this task before I try it? Thank you very much for your help on this.

 

[carld61]

When looking at the VB kits, it shows symptom 1 to 2 shuttle and 1 to 2 soft. not having second at all isn't a symptom. I notice most assume no second is simply band issue. But when I go back to 2005 forums it is clear that the TTVA caused no second at all and they changed many TTVA and fixed the issue with no second gear. I have looked at the second band as we talked of earlier and I don't see anything wrong with pan off looking at it as I adjust it. All that said, I am confident that the issue is in the VB after learning from you that the valve the TTVA controls is there. Looking at the breakdown, it will be fun to see what is actually worn between the TTVA shaft to the valve that operates second gear fluid pressure?? but not real fun

 

[cerberusiam]

What wears is the valve in the VB itself, the TV valve is 2 or 3 pieces that chnages the TV pressure based on throttle position. One word of warning, running without the TTVA motor is a bad idead, that will slip shifts and whole host of other issues. The trans needs that TV pressure to work correctly.

If you want all the fixes Sonnax makes a Sure Cure kit that address all the issues in the 48RE. That kit combined with a Superior shift kit is a good combo. There will be overlap on some parts so you have to choose at times what you want to use.

 

[carld61]

" The TV throttle valve has a tendency to wear a groove in it and jam the valve as it is cycled. With a TV cable this manifests as a sticking throttle application at a certain position. With the TTVA motor it cause the TCM to think there is a problem with the motor."
I believe in the above statement as I have read that the TTVA in 2005 and 2006 caused no second gear on many trucks. When changing the TTVA it corrected it, therefore on the other end of that TTVA shaft "if you will" I see where the chance of wear to the throttle valve could cause the same discrepancy and you have also told me you have seen this if I understand you correctly. I said all that because I had no luck talking with the Tech at Sonnax, he strongly disagrees that anything in the valve body can cause only second gear to fail even after I explained all to him. He did however let me confirm the Sonnax part number for throttle valve replacement is 22771-03K and I will go after that part and see what it takes to put it in. He also said even if it was possible that it cause only second gear failure.. that it is most likely the VB housing is worn and it wont pass a vacuum check. I am for getting this and giving it a shot and if it doesn't work then I can find a rebuild VB rather than going into oversizing. I will wait until I hear form you before I purchase. I appreciate your opinion and experience. I am all for anything I can try with the transmission in truck.

 

[carld61]

Copy... For some reason I didn't see your post before I wrote my later. I will order the kits you mentioned and go from there and put my old actuator motor back on immediately. You say it wears the valve body itself, then will I have to have drill to get an oversize TV to work or will I be able to install the Kits myself and do I need to order any tools. Sorry for all the back and forth. I would be happy to just stick the Throttle valve in there to see what it does but if its the valve body that wouldn't work would it without some oversize stuff and honing. Never done any of this

 

[cerberusiam]

IIRC it doesn't wear the VB housing, it wears a lip in the TV valve. The TV valve is a 2 piece unit with sliding piston in it to adjust pressure. The sliding portion is what wears. Check the kit instructions but on that piece I don't think you need to oversize the bore. If does need over sized they will include a the reamer or a link to it in the kit info on the web sire. The detent ball fix requires a reamer whihc is separate from the kit. That is if my memory has not deserted me again on the VB. It has been a few years since I did one so I might being having a senior moment.

 

[carld61]

Thanks again cerberusiam.. I will try and make and sinkable reply here. I have read and looked it this on my spare time, my day job gets in the way, anyway its a head full messing with this. Let me run this buy you. I will attempt to attach pictures... The Cure all 48RE kit seems to come with oversize stuff and requires 3 bores it looks like (tools not included)Not getting into the shift kit at this point, I spoke to the tech at SONNEX and his opinion is as I said no loss of second gear only will be cured by this kit. I don't agree with him totally based on history as I mention. However he said by the time I mess with the kit and get the tools and jigs they suggest it will be cheaper to purchase a Remained VB. Well that's no fun and if it breaks later I will have to pay again rather than learn it and have tools. I don't have money growing here to buy a bunch of tools either. That said I am looking at the TV replacement OE size. It has a inspection in it to inspect the bore and if it seems wore includes a spring to install for that. So can I drop the VB a bit and give this 27.00 TV replacement a shot and see if it fixes it and if not I will buy the cure all and shift kit and see if my transmission guy can help me put that in and maybe I can watch and see what tools I really need. I read all the instructions on all this stuff and it looks simple enough if they don't charge you crazy for every tool and jig. I will keep poking at this and let you know how it goes since you have so much appreciated inputs here. Thanks again for your help and I will of course be watching if you or anyone else has any good advice on this.

 

[cerberusiam]

Try the normal size replacement and see if that fixes the problem first. Sometimes just new parts take care of the issues.

 

[carld61]

Thanks again cerberusiam. I have the TV kit on order with the special spring for if wear is apparent to the VB. I have the GOV solenoid and transducer on hand to put in at the same time. I am also excited to see what the band and band strut look like with the VB out. I will make one more adjustment to that band while I can see the mechanics of the strut working and maybe I will get lucky here. In my queries everything points to the band for my loss of second gear although it didn't explain the loss of overdrive when warm. I also understood that if the band strut was broken it should have fell in the pan. I couldn't be that lucky and all looked good to me from what I can see adjusting it with just the pan off but I will be able to see it well with the VB off.

 

[carld61]

OK long weekend... Installed new TTVA, OD GOV solenoid and Transducer. Installed TV Kit and used the balancing spring provided because I wasn't sure if the bore was worn and I chose to use no shims provided. Adjusted 2nd gear band to the T as I could see it all with VB off. Test drove after correcting fuel issues I will bring to other forum page......shifted perfectly through all gears, very smooth on normal driving. When romping from take off.. shifts just before red line when doggin it hard and is at 80 plus miles per hour at last shift point. Kick down and all works well with normal driving and or romping on it. No DYNO test but it seems fine to me. We will see how long this repair works. I did break one of the 10 VB bolts off even though I was using torque wrench and figured it would hold or not and continued on to see the result of the maintenance conducted which proved successfull. I will drop the VB on next filter change and remove and replace bolt if not sooner. Last two questions on this issue. The Sonnex TV Kit suggested if the OEM TV was etched between the spools indicating a poor ground circuit to run an extra ground to transmission. The OEM TV did have some outer material missing between the spool but didn't seem like an electrical etch. I guess I will run the wire just in case as I did install the balance spring provided. The second question is the reverse horn alarm when the door is open and in reverse. I hate that because I am usually left foot out the door when it hits park and the horn goes off. I would have disconnected that if I knew how but did not. The alarm does not go off now and I am glad but do not know what I did. The neutral switch all seems good. Reverse lights work and it will only start in N or P as always so what did I do to the alarm or anything else I don't know of. I did remove the ground cables before start of job. When I put the grounds back on the key was on and maybe it was in reverse and burnt a fuse when I connected the ground. I did get a good spark there. I sure wont fix the fuse unless it operates something else. I need to go to a fuel problem page now when I parked it last it never started back. Thanks for your help and support on this transmission fixed I'm pretty happy with it. Finding the replacement VB bolt wont be to hard I hope.

 

[cerberusiam]

That is the out of park alarm. Any time you open the drivers door with the engine running and you are not stepping the brake it warns you. PIA but too many people just throw the shifter at park, walk away, then get run over by the truck. CYA by the manufacturer is all it is but we gotta live with it.

 

[carld61]

I do realize what it is I just wonder what I might have done in my repair process that disabled it. I don't mind it being gone, I hate it but it bothers me that I don't know what I did.