2005 in tank lift pump dead ???

[Prairie Dog]

Most of all, be wary of anyone's advice that has a financial interest in what you do, is the only one that promotes a specific item or berates other members suggestions.
OP, you have gotten some very good advice here. Several of the people who have posted responses are highly experienced and highly respected professional techs that work on these trucks daily. They should not be disregarded as mere shadetree mechanics (like me!).

Scott

 

[TCDiesel]

Most of Al Be wary of those that care only about their personnel exploitation of others wallets Base on 0 facts ( Marketing ,Advertising ,Cheerleading) Knowledge and Most of ALL Personnel Agenda.... It always seems that some dogs will bark at anything. Again and Again human reasoning base on limited to restrictive experience or observations is just that limited. Most techs are limited to the sources of the Company or the Shop they work for, Most great techs have experts in the field to call for the professional expertise needed to resolve problems ,they may use the web for touch tone knowledge that's about it.
And Dog I have more Money than I spend so if your comment was aim at Me your WRONG AGAIN. If Not I will recant and will delete>

 

[brods]

Most of all, be wary of anyone's advice that has a financial interest in what you do, is the only one that promotes a specific item or berates other members suggestions.
OP, you have gotten some very good advice here. Several of the people who have posted responses are highly experienced and highly respected professional techs that work on these trucks daily. They should not be disregarded as mere shadetree mechanics (like me!).

Scott

You need to clarify your post or withdraw it. As it appears you are implying TCDiesel is not giving sound advice because of his "financial interest". How is that so when he is recommending the in tank pump that he does not sell?? Both Cerb and TCDiesel bring a lot of value to this forum, that doesn't mean they have to agree on everything. Sure Todd's posts take some effort to decipher, but there is a lot of knowledge and experience behind them. (And to ward off your attack on me, I have never spoken with Todd. I have never purchased anything from TCDiesel. I have no financial interest TCDiesel what so ever.)

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep...most of the time I agree with CB and when I do disagree I try an do it in a way that not insulting..and When Me and CB disagree we don't degrade or insinuate motives... even thou the debate gets heated.. and that's the same for anyone including BOB4x4 or Sag2.. PD got his agendas nothing wrong with that as long as it ALLOWS DEBATES, I haven't even posted in threads he's participant in months or longer.

 

[brods]

LHirshman, you have now had lots of good advice and will have to choose what is important to you. I’ll throw my 2 cents in. First, it is hard to out engineer the factory. Not only do they have to design for all conditions, they do extensive testing to prove their design works. The only advantage we have is cost: they have to spend as little as possible while we are free to spend whatever we like fixing real and nonexistent problems.

The in tank pump has proven itself reliable. That doesn’t mean it will never fail, but the probability is it will last a good long time. Search for threads by AH64ID or PM him your questions. Iirc he has performance mods and has been running two extra spin on filters with the stock in tank lift pump for years now. If you're sold on an external pump, search for guys that have been running the setup you are interested in for years without problems and copy what they’ve done. Always remember the devil is in the details and usually we are ignorant of at least some of the important details when trying to out think the factory.

And as for cutting a hole in the bottom of your tank for a sump, you'll have to drain the entire tank if there is ever a leak or problem with the sump. Also consider if it would be vulnerable to being struck by road debris or what would happen in an accident before making the decision to go that route.

 

[LHirshman]

Gentlemen, I did not intend for this thread to turn into a debate. Some of you have responded to previous threads, of mine, over the years and for those of you who I am hearing from for the first time, I appreciate your knowledge/opinions. What I have found, over the years, is that the TDR Forums have more knowledgeable and experienced members compared to some of the other forums out there. So I thank you all for your time spent on this subject.

Now to the matter of my lift pump, My purpose is to reliably repair it with minimum expense with the thought in mind that if I have a lift pump failure in another 140Kmiles/12Years from now, changing the pump should be as easy as changing a flat tire.

That being said, whichever path I take, I need to get things apart first.

To that end, I have loosened the bolts that hold the tank in place, by removing the left rear tire and fill hose I have access to the two hoses and the electrical connector on the LP.

And now to the crux of the biscuit, how do I get the darned things off?

If you've done this and can describe how (pictures are worth 1000 words), please enlighten me!

 

[LHirshman]

And now to the crux of the biscuit, how do I get the darned things off?

If you've done this and can describe how (pictures are worth 1000 words), please enlighten me![/QUOTE]



Update, after searching the web and watching a couple of Utube videos, I was able to disconnect the two fuel lines easily. However, the electrical connector is a *****. Does anyone sell that connector so I can splice it in when I cut off the old one. Don't worry I know how to make a weather proof splice.

Regarding the aftermarket sump from FASS. It was a thought but after looking at the bottom of the tank, I don't think the O rings would make an effective seal against the rough surface of the tank. From experience you need a nice smooth machined surface for O rings to seal effectively. Just my $0.02

 

[seafish]

The electrical connector IS a *****. Many times the problem is the dirt that gets packed up into it and prevents the locking tab from disconnecting. While I do NOT remember the exact tab it has, you can use liberal doses of WD40 and compressed air to clean the connector before trying to unlock it. Also, a mirror helps to see what you are doing.

 

[LHirshman]

Thanks Seafish! The WD40 worked, I got the electrical connector off!

Starting this endevour, last weekend, my tank was full. Using a diesel pump i managed to get 15 gallons out by drawing on the return line port on the LP. Interestingly the LP port to the engine would not let me draw fuel. How does this LP work? This evening I put a tube down the fill port on the tank and managed to extract 10 more gallons. When the fuel gauge is on the full mark how much is in the tank?

Tomorrow I drop the tank and remove the LP, then we'll get the full story. Stay tuned.

 

[seafish]

Thanks Seafish! The WD40 worked, I got the electrical connector off!

Good news....did you also use compressed air???

FYI...I use the same technique on old style seat belt ratchet/pendulum mechanisms that are stuck or sticky....though you gotta take them out of the truck first!!! LOL

Using a diesel pump i managed to get 15 gallons out by drawing on the return line port on the LP.... This evening I put a tube down the fill port on the tank and managed to extract 10 more gallons. When the fuel gauge is on the full mark how much is in the tank?

The gauge still reading full is likely inaccurate due to it being connected to the ecm as well as the tank "float". IIRC, the gauge does not necessarily register correctly with fuel being siphoned out unless the truck is started up, which you probably do NOT want to do at this point in time. If you have removed 25 gallons from the tank, there is not much more then 10 gallons left.

 

[LHirshman]

The tank is out as you can see.

The metal ring has big slots and small slots, I've hit each counterclockwise with a big screwdriver and mallet. I've also soaked it with WD40 after cleaning out as much dirt and debris as possible. How do you get this thing off?

By the way, whoever came up with the idea of mixing ATF and Acetone to put on rusted bolts is a genius. Bless him and his offspring for 1000 years!

 

[LHirshman]

Well folks, cerberusiam, hit the nail on the head. The filter screen at the bottom of the LP is clogged. Everything else on the LP seems intact.

Some interesting things learned during this experience: A full reading on the fuel gauge is about 28 gallons of fuel in the 34 gallon tank. The height of the cup that holds the pump is about 1/2 way up the float's travel range, hence my running out of fuel at 1/2 a tank. Lastly the fuel filling port, on the tank, extends quite a few inches into the tank itself. There is a ball at the end that seals the port at some level of fuel. Also the 3/4 vent port has no restriction in it. So I removed the ball and we'll see what happens when I fill the tank.

Last question, what is a good epoxy that is fuel proof. I have some fine nylon material that I would like to epoxy to the bottom of the cup after removing the plugged bottom screen?

Finally, thank you all for your help!

 

[cerberusiam]

I would just replace the whole canister and pump at this point. The plastics have a finite life in diesel, now that you have disturbed it I would worry about other lines and fittings cracking. The feed pipe from the LP with bleed valve in it is trouble spot as it wants to crack and then you lose pressure.

If the screen is clogged with blank gunk you see one of the big issues with ULSD. That is the same stuff that turns the filters black after a short time, asphaltenes. You need to make sure you run an additive with a cleaner to stop that build up as not only doe sit mess with the tank components it raises havoc with the injectors.

 

[LHirshman]

I already ordered a new LP. I was thinking of fixing the old one as a spare.

Regarding cleaning, the tank was pretty clean looking. The tubes on the LP had a black coating on the inside. What additive would you recommend to clean the fuel system? I assume using this cleaner will require a fuel filter change?

 

[cerberusiam]

Something that had a good cleaner in it for sure. I think Fleetguard has an additive especially for the asphaltenes, Power Service does a good job of limiting it also. Just about any of the additives that contain naptha, napthalene, or some type of solvent should help. Even MMO would work for that as long as you have enough lubricant to offset the cleaning agents.

 

[LHirshman]

I'm afraid of the answer but I'll ask it. Would using a tank cleaner prevented this? Could I have fixed this problem by using a cleaner?

 

[cerberusiam]

IMO, yes a steady diet of a cleaning additive makes a difference all the way thru the fuel system.

I have over double the miles and no issues like you describe. Granted, a lot of variables in the equation but based on pulling injectors periodically and looking at them and miles I have an additive package is worth the effort.

 

[TCDiesel]

IMO , NO.......If your that hook on finding the facts on additives make arrangement to visit you local refinery chemist, They have the resources to show you with your own eyes that additives are NOT necessary and in many cases cause problems. Your system is no different than the millions of commercial trucks that have 500,000K + miles before freshening up.... Your $ is much better off spent on filtration or saved for future repairs. Here's video of New Injectors that were still in the pouches the rebuilder use, The Problem was he left them in his shed for 2 months, What this really tells Me that the calibrating fluid the Builder use is WTH cheap garbage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQts357ykvQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[JKosten]

I'm afraid of the answer but I'll ask it. Would using a tank cleaner prevented this? Could I have fixed this problem by using a cleaner?

Yes and no. A good system cleaner will help prevent system failures due to the low quality diesel fuel that is currently begin produced. I personally recommend and use Stanadyne additives with every fill up.

http://stanadyneadditives.com/performance-formula/

As for Asphaltenes, here is a good article from Hastlings filter: http://www.hastingsfilter.com/Literature/TSB/95-1R2.pdf

Asphaltenes -- are by-products of fuel as it oxidizes. Asphaltene particles are
generally thought to be in the 0.5 – 2.0 micron range and are harmless to the
injection system, as they are soft and deformable. As these tiny particles pass
through the filter media they tend to stick to the individual fibers. If you were to
cut open a filter that had choked after a normal service interval you would see a
black, tarry substance on the dirty side of the element; this is asphaltene
(oxidized fuel). Fuel with a high percentage of asphaltenes will drastically shorten
the life of a fuel filter.

Fuel cleaners can help to break down the asphaltenes so they will not clog the pickup and either get picked up in the filter or pushed through the system to be used as fuel. Down side is that oxidized fuel does not burn as well "good" fuel.

 

[cerberusiam]

Asphaltene particles are
generally thought to be in the 0.5 – 2.0 micron range and are harmless to the
injection system,

Total BS. Run a 2 um ANYTHING thru a CR injector and you will have junk sooner rather than later. Asphaltenes form as a result of the cooking effect of the fuel going thru the CR fuel system, it just flat gets hot enough to cause them to clump, then they cool and build up. Once they build up they turn hard enough to score metal, and as the OP found, they build up into a hard coating. In an injector they gummed it up then turn hard when the engine cools.

We already know anything in the 2-3 um range is death on a CR injector. While that statement have some truth in it, it is dead wrong on the effect. The bulk of these trucks run thru many cooling cycles and every time they do it is leaving more of the solidified residue on parts and in the fuel.

The BEST filter in the OE housing is 5 um so there is a LOT of junk going thru that is extremely detrimental to injector health, akin to running fine silica sand thru it. The problem is a known issue and Fleetguard has had a additive for years to address it specifically.