2007 new pinion seal, now gear noise, now what?

[Sean Flanagan]

I got some plastic wrapped around my drive shaft and it trashed my rear pinion seal and the mating seal on the yoke. Based on what I read on this board and others, I just replaced the pinion seal and yoke.

I tried torqueing the pinion nut to 150 ft lbs, but it never really got there. It would ony get to about 120 and keep on turning. I turned the nut about 1/3 turn like this and stopped. Does this axle have a crush sleeve? I noticed the rotational play when rotating the yoke is less then before I started, maybe 5 instead of 10 degrees (very rough guess). Fearing I went too far, I hooked the drive shaft back up and tested. Now when I decelerate, I get significant gear whine. So now what? Too tight, too loose? I only drove it around the block.



This truck has the 11. 5" American Axle

 

[Hoefler]

I just checked the AAM website, they list a collapsible spacer in their bearing kit. You need to replace it and the bearings as well. The torque spec is for new bearings. When it is being torqued, you are actually seating the bearings in the race with a preload for break in. If you set used bearings to this spec with or with out a new sleeve, you will cause the bearings to go through another break in period and cause bearing failure.

 

[Sean Flanagan]

Where did you find this information on the AAM website? I can't seem to find anything useful there...
Thanks

 

[rscurtis]

What you could (should) have done is mark the relationship between the nut and the pinion, and return the nut to that location. However, the FSM indicates that the pinion nut should be replaced, not re-used. Having said that, if this was my truck, I'd remove the axles, and tighten the pinion nut enough to require a rotational force of 20-30 inch pounds to turn the pinion. Now road test the vehicle- if the noise is gone, you're good to go. Now, mark the nut and the pinion, remove the nut and apply a thread locker, and return to the same location. In the event that you collapsed the spacer too far, which I doubt, as you'll need a 4 foot breaker bar to do it, you'll have to replace the spacer and start over. I believe you can do this just by removing the front pinion bearing- you don't have to disassemble the entire axle assembly.

 

[TBartlett1]

Just the nut keeps turning??? Or you can't hold the pinion shaft from turning.

150 lb/ft of torque probably did not even seat the new yoke in position.



My opinion is that the noise is from insufficient preload on the pinion bearings allowing the pinion gear to move out of position under load.



New yokes are a tight fit and it is not unusual for them to go on very hard.

The correct torque is significantly more than 150ft/lb perhaps 300 or more, but I do not know the actual value.



Even with a used crush sleeve if you are careful you can sneak up on the correct torque by tightening the nut in very small increments then checking the turning torque by hand or with an inch lb torque wrench.

When using a new crush sleeve it is still easy to over torque it.

I would do the following;

*Raise the rear wheels of the ground.

*Remove the driveshaft & pull the axles out a few inches to disengage the splines.

*A helper would make the following procedure much easier.

*Take a large pipe wrench to hold the yoke from turning.

* Use a new nut or apply some (very little) Loctite to the old nut

*With a ¾ inch torque wrench or breaker bar slowly tighten the nut until there is no loosness in the bearing.

*At this point tighten the nut in very small increments (1/16 of a turn or less) while checking the turning torque frequently by hand until it feels like it was prior to disassembling it, or check it with a small in/lb torque wrench. There are specks for new and used bearings.

If you over tighten the nut indicated by excessive turning torque it is NOT OK to back it off.

Go slowly and check often.

I will watch for you progress.

If you want you can call me.



Tim

 

[Sean Flanagan]

Tbarlett1
Thanks for the helpful advise.

I have had a lot of people tell me to just tighten the snot out of it and you will be ok. But based on what I am hearing, that is not OK.

I was tightening the nut at about 120ft-lbs with the wheels on the ground and brake set hard. The torque did not go above that amount for about 1/3 turn, the yoke DID NOT turn, and I noticed that the rotational play (how much I could rotate the yoke with the wheels locked) was getting less. So I stopped. I did mark the nut and the position of the yoke, but with a new yoke, it was pointless. I put the new yoke in the same position of the old.

You say "*With a ¾ inch torque wrench or breaker bar slowly tighten the nut until there is no loosness in the bearing". Looseness which way? Rotational? In and out?

Also, to remove the axles, the factory service manual talks about a special socket to remove the hub bearing nut. Do you think I need this? Have you done this work without it?

Thanks for your help.

 

[rscurtis]

By using the vehicle brakes to stop the pinion from turning, all you're probably doing is twisting the axles. The proper way to stop the pinion from turning is to hold the flange- there is a special tool for this, but a good sized pipe wrench will work. The purpose of removing the axles for checking pinion preload is so you're not measuring the resistance of the wheel bearings and brakes, which will give a false (high) reading on pinion torque. It is not necessary to touch the wheel bearings. As others have said, it will take real effort to over tighten the collapsible spacer.

 

[TBartlett1]

By looseness I mean as in the bearing being loose both radialy and/or in & out like a wheel bearing.

The axle's shafts can be removed without touching the wheel bearing. They are held in with either nuts or screws and will just slide out.



Tightening the snot out of it (depends on whose SNOT) will most likely cause certain damage to the bearings & then take out the gears.



Tim

 

[Sean Flanagan]

OK,
I went and got a big ***** pipe wrench and an inch-pound torque wrench at Harbor Freight Tools. Luckily it is about 1 mile away. The tools there are crappy China tools but as long as I only use them a few times they get the job done, barely.

So I pulled the rear axles (way easier than I thought it would be) out about 4 inches and did the pre-load test with the inch-pound torque wrench. Almost no torque, didn't even register with the torque wrench.

So, I kept tightening the nut until I got to about 10inch pounds of torque to turn the yoke. The service manual calls for 5-15 on existing bearings (not new). To do so took all the strength I have with a 4ft breaker bar. I don't know how much torque it was but it was well above the 150ft-lbs of my torque wrench (which I stopped using as soon as it pegged).

I guess I could have got away with "tighten the snot out of it" in this case, but now at least I know it is done right.

Now everything is nice and quiet like it should be. I learned a bit today.
Thanks a million guys. This site is the best!

Sean

 

[rscurtis]

Now you know how hard it is to collapse a new spacer.

 

[ssanders60]

rear end noise

Sean, the dealer just recently replaced a slightly leaking seal

in my trucks rear differential and since then I have a drone, or gear

noise in the vicinity of 50-60 miles an hour. The noise is absent at

slower speeds and higher speeds.

Would you please advise what speed your noise seemed to start?



I know nothing about the workings of the differential and seal replacement

therefor I don't understand what you all are talking about, but I suspect the

job was not done correctly. I thought first it might just be the fact that

I didn't notice it before, but the more I drive it I find it annoying, evidently

something is not right,

many thanks,

 

[opjohnny]

Bringing this one up, I get the same drone at 55-60 mph on slowing down. Would that be pinion bearing? To me it sounds like cupped or mud tires. I can hear it coming up to a stop.

John

 

[MoparDave]

For Future Ref



SEAL-PINION

REMOVAL

1. Remove axle shafts.

2. Mark the propeller shaft and pinion flange for

installation reference.

3. Remove propeller shaft.

4. Rotate pinion gear (1) three or four times.

5. Measure and record the amount of torque necessary

to rotate the pinion gear with an inch pound

torque wrench (2).

6. Hold pinion flange (1) with Flange Wrench 8979 (2)

and remove pinion flange nut.

7. Remove pinion flange (1) with Pinion Flange Puller

8992 (2).

8. Remove pinion shaft seal with a seal puller or slide

hammer mounted screw.

3 - 416 REAR AXLE - 11 1/2 AA DR

INSTALLATION

1. Install new pinion seal with Handle C-4171 (1) and

Installer 8896 (2).

2. Apply a light coat of teflon sealant to the pinion

flange splines.

3. Lightly tap the pinion flange onto the pinion until a

few threads are showing.

4. Install flange washer and new pinion nut.

5. Hold pinion flange (2) with Flange Wrench 8979 (1)

and tighten pinion nut until pinion end play is taken

up.

6. Rotate pinion several times to seat bearings.

7. Measure pinion (1) Torque To Rotate with an inch

pound torque wrench (2) and compare it to

recorded measurement. Tighten pinion nut in small

increments, until pinion Torque To Rotate is

0. 40-0. 57 N·m (3-5 in. lbs. ) greater than recorded

measurement.

8. Rotate pinion several times then verify pinion

Torque To Rotate again.

9. Install axle shafts.

10. Install propeller shaft with reference marks

aligned.

11. Check differential fluid level.



DESCRIPTION SPECIFICATION

Axle Ratio 3. 73, 4. 10

Ring Gear Diameter 292 mm (11. 5 in. )

Ring Gear Backlash 0. 13-0. 18 mm (0. 005-0. 007 in. )

Pinion Torque To Rotate - New Bearings 1. 69-2. 82 N·m (15-25 in. lbs. )

Pinion Torque To Rotate - Original Bearings 1-2 N·m (10-20 in. lbs. )

Total Torque to Rotate - New Bearing 3. 4-5. 6 N·m (30-50 in. lbs. )

Total Torque to Rotate - Original Bearing 2. 8-5. 1 N·m (25-45 in. lbs. )