2010 towing with 2500

[bob257]

I'm new to the site so forgive me if this has been gone over before. I'm trying to determine if I'm over weight with a fifth wheel. I have a Ram 2500 with the Cummins of course, it has 4:10 rears. My fifth wheel is 11900 dry. I found a tow rating of 12,500 and one of 13450. Is this conventional? Some say I should be able to pull 16,500 in a fifth wheel. I'm confused!

 

[AH64ID]

The Dodge website is horrible on tow ratings for 2010's, it just lists max, and not the specific tow weight for each combo.

Honestly the pin weight will be your issue, as long as you don't exceed your RAWR or tire capacity you should be fine. You may find airbags are nice to help control the load.

13,450 is the max I have found. . but again there is room to play with on that, as a 3500SRW is the same other than 7% stiffer springs in the rear and is rated up to 17K.

 

[RustyJC]

The problem as far as the numbers are concerned is your 2500's limited GVWR. If you want to know if you're exceeding the truck's GVWR or rear axle GAWR, spend the $8. 00 to go across a set of scales at a truck stop the next time you're out pulling the 5th wheel under real world conditions.



Of course, manufacturer's trailer tow ratings ignore GVWR, GAWR, etc. until you read the fine print - something to the effect that "None of the truck's other ratings are to be exceeded when towing. "



Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

I agree, true mfgr tow limit is GCWR minus GVW.

Now where the grey area comes in is that DOT and States only care about what you pay for. I am paid up to 26K GCWR, so based on my hitting the scale last night at 8Klbs without driver/load I am "legal" up to tow up to 18K lbs (5Klbs more than with my mfgr GCWR allows). So now it gets into hitch ratings, GAWR (tires on a SRW), etc. .

 

[RustyJC]

Manufacturer's trailer tow rating is GCWR minus the truck's curb weight. That's where the manufacturer plays games to get as high a number as possible - they use a base truck (no options or accessories) with only a 150 lb driver as the basis of their curb weight in the calculation above. The actual curb weight on our 2002 3500 dually, with driver, passengers, options, accessories, cargo, tool box, 5th wheel hitch, full fuel tank, etc. was 1300 lbs greater than the manufacturer's curb weight listed for our truck.



You didn't specify what numbers you're concerned about, but if you want to stay within the manufacturer's limits for warranty reasons, then my post stands as written. On the other hand, if you are only concerned about "being legal", then don't exceed your axle and tire loading limits.



Rusty

 

[bob257]

The pin weight is 3100 lbs. My rear axle rating is 6000. I notice that Ford lists a conventional rating and then a 5th wheel rating which is approximately 20% higher. I guess I'm wondering if my truck is okay with the 5th wheel I have. 11,900 dry.

 

[AH64ID]

Manufacturer's trailer tow rating is GCWR minus the truck's curb weight. That's where the manufacturer plays games to get as high a number as possible - they use a base truck (no options or accessories) with only a 150 lb driver as the basis of their curb weight in the calculation above. The actual curb weight on our 2002 3500 dually, with driver, passengers, options, accessories, cargo, tool box, 5th wheel hitch, full fuel tank, etc. was 1300 lbs greater than the manufacturer's curb weight listed for our truck.



You didn't specify what numbers you're concerned about, but if you want to stay within the manufacturer's limits for warranty reasons, then my post stands as written. On the other hand, if you are only concerned about "being legal", then don't exceed your axle and tire loading limits.



Rusty

Yeah, my truck is about 800lbs heavier as it sits that curb weight (same extras as you)...



I have never hear of a warranty issue based on exceeding GCWR, probably because its near impossible for Dodge to prove.



Don't exceed FAWR (which is easy to do, I am 300 under with the truck empty), RAWR (thou this is another gray area on a SRW, RAWR on a SRW is based on tires and tires only, so if you get better tire/wheels you can go up to 9350lbs before the next limit), tires then you are good... If you notice RAWR and FAWR combine to greatly exceed GVWR. The frame is the same from a 2500 hemi to a 3500 DRW CTD, so I would be safe in assuming your SRW frame can handle the 12,200 GVW that a DRW can take if you don't exceed FAWR, RAWR (9350), or tires...

 

[bob257]

I also have not been able to find the GCWR for my truck. I found 24,500 for a 3500 SW but nothing listed for the 2500. Very frustrating.

 

[AH64ID]

The pin weight is 3100 lbs. My rear axle rating is 6000. I notice that Ford lists a conventional rating and then a 5th wheel rating which is approximately 20% higher. I guess I'm wondering if my truck is okay with the 5th wheel I have. 11,900 dry.

Is that empty pin weight or max pin weight?



But you need to take your truck to a scale and measure the weight on the rear axle. As my truck sits I am at 3200, so the 3100 from that pin would put me at 6300 which is 95lbs less than my tires can handle. . Now a little of that pin weight will go to the front axle...



Your close, its not your truck as a 3500 SRW would have the same issues. . To determine if you can do it you need to find a close scale. Take the truck/trailer and weigh each axle. If there is fudge room then load the truck/trailer up as you would for camping and go re-weigh, give yourself at least a 10% fudge factor and determine if your tires are rated high enough. . If not you need a DRW or a set of 19. 5's.

 

[AH64ID]

I also have not been able to find the GCWR for my truck. I found 24,500 for a 3500 SW but nothing listed for the 2500. Very frustrating.

IIRC its on the door jam.

 

[RustyJC]

I have never hear of a warranty issue based on exceeding GCWR, probably because its near impossible for Dodge to prove.

Some people want to tow within the manufacturer's numbers. Some don't. Some think it's OK to pull a 43' Teton with a 4 cylinder Ford Ranger. To each his own. At my age, I've given up arguing about it - it's not worth it, and people are going to do what they want to do anyway.



Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

I am not saying go crazy, and ignore limits. . I pointing out that there are ways to safely look at your individual limits, and determine what Dodge has decided to be the frame/suspension/brakes/etc limits. . Knowing that info along with AAM ratings, as well as the fact that the frame is the same from a 2500 hemi thru a 3500 DRW diesel means you can read between the lines to determine a safe working limit that exceeds the mfgr GCWR. Especially when you consider the difference physically and on paper between a 2500 and 3500SRW, its just a numbers game for sales. . The 2500 is only rated lower becuase thats what a 3/4 is, not because its not capable or safe to rate it higher. . Just like GVWR was capped at 9,900 for years on SRW trucks becuase 10K meant having to stop and more weigh stations.

If you want to just look at numbers from Dodge and use those that is fine, if you want to do some research and haul more than on your piece of paper thats fine too, just know the limits.

 

[bob257]

Not listed on the label. Practically everything else is but not the GCWR!

 

[AH64ID]

Not listed on the label. Practically everything else is but not the GCWR!

That sucks.



You may try calling Dodge at 800. 992. 1997; they have an option for towing info.

 

[RustyJC]

The GCWR used to be in the owner's manual, back when we had printed owner's manuals. At least it was on my 2002 dually - it was 21,500 lbs with the 4. 10s, 20,000 lbs with the 3. 54s with a Cummins HO/NV5600.



I believe, as far as weight ratings go, the driver's door sticker only gives GVWR and the GAWRs for the front and rear axles.



Rusty

 

[SHobbs]

My apologies for going off topic but, Rusty it's good to see you again.



Scott

 

[Jim W]

I use this site for all of my towing information. http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2010/intro.pdf

Click on the Ram icon and then what style of truck you have. Then you will come to a screen that needs to be click that reads on the RH side : Base Weights/GCWpayloads/Trailertow. This will provide all the information that you are looking for.

For those with other years just change out the build year for year truck. I believe this only goes back to 2005 or so.

Jim

 

[RustyJC]

My apologies for going off topic but, Rusty it's good to see you again.



Scott

To continue Scott's thread hijack.....



Good to see you too, Scott. I feel like a newbie trying to pick up on everything I've missed while I owned the 2002 and now moving to the 2011. Lots of new technology - I'm not sure it's all for the better looking at some of my initial fuel mileage results, but the new one doesn't have 1000 miles on it yet. :{ Oh, well, the wife really likes the 2011 since it certainly does have a lot more glitzy bells and whistles than the 2002 - and an automatic transmission.



Rusty

 

[HBarlow]

Not listed on the label. Practically everything else is but not the GCWR!

Forget the manufacturer's gross combined weight rating. It is a useless number. You will exceed the other weights which are important before you exceed GCWR.

The numbers you need to know are first your truck's gross vehicle weight rating which is posted in the driver's door post. It is probably 9,900 lbs. for a Ram 2500. You should not exceed GVWR.

The other numbers you need to answer your question can only be determined by towing your trailer across a scale and weighing it. You need to know your loaded front axle weight and rear axle weight.

Once you determine the true loaded axle weights compare them to your front and rear axle weight ratings which are also posted on the VIN decal attached to the driver's door post. You cannot safely (or legally) exceed axle weight ratings because they are based on tire capacity as well as suspension capacity.

 

[AH64ID]

The numbers you need to know are first your truck's gross vehicle weight rating which is posted in the driver's door post. It is probably 9,900 lbs. for a Ram 2500. You should not exceed GVWR.

GVWR on a 2500 is a JOKE, plain and simple. If my truck were a 2500 it would be 9K lbs. I sit at 8K with just my tools/chains/etc (just in a tool box, bed empty, full of fuel, no driver/pass)... 1K lb payload on a 3/4 ton truck. . please my Tacoma had a higher actual payload. The difference on a 2500 and 3500 SRW for my year was the overloads, the rest of the truck was the same. The overloads take more than 2500lbs in the bed to even touch. . so they are really useless most the time (probably why the 4th gen 3500 SRW's don't have them)... But my 3500 SRW has a GVWR of 9,900 lbs, so a 1,900lb payload for a 3500. . that too is a JOKE!

GAWR is much more important than GVWR, Dodge has rated the frame/suspension up to 12,200 GVWR, so as long as I am under that and under GAWR I am fine. DOT also only cares about what you have paid for (GCWR) and GAWR/Tires.