2015 3500 wheelbstuds sheared off

[JR]

I learned the hard way years ago the value of a press when changing wheel studs. Fortunately I was also stupid enough to run em in with no lube on the threads which galled them, so I had to knock em back out.
Never again.

 

[run2trouble]

Good morning,
My name is Ky.

I agree about finding a drive line shop and having them go through everything, I know a good one in Albuquerque.

The shop that’s it’s at ordered a rotor, studs and nuts, the backing plate,a caliper, wheels and tires. They should get it in the shop and tore apart today to see if they need anything more.

I’ve never been in the axle I’m this one.

I do understand the difference in the grease packed and oil bath hubs, I have a mixture of these on trailers at home.




I’ve never used anti seize on the wheel studs, is this something I should be doing?

 

[Tuesdak]

Thinking about this repeated stud failure. I'm wondering how they've been replaced before. Some guys like to draw them through the hub with washers and a backwards nut. This is not a good method, and could over stress the stud.
The proper method is to get the hub onto a shop press and press the studs through. This won't stress the weak part of the stud, which is the neck at the very end of the threads- where they're all failed.
Also, to the mention of greasing bearings earlier, please do not pack bearings in a full floating drive axle. The proper method to settle the oil level is on page 91 of the link below.

Refer to page 91 here --
http://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/gaxgNfjZwmf33Kmw3/axsm0046.pdf

Yes: It's a light lube of grease not packing the bearings with grease. That is a better procedure to oil them in the linked manual esp. since you don't have to move a dry bearing for a slope.

 

[Wayne M.]

Anti seize on hubs is a red hot topic around here! It really depends on the hub/ wheel combo and weather it's problematic in getting the wheels apart. I use a light coat on the hub on my 3500, and light oil on the threads. Those wheels were welded on with oxidation when that truck was months old. I've never had a problem since then. I fear having to hammer off wheels on the side of the road.
My job has me spending time working various year F550's that are mini salt trucks, but the front and rear hubs are all same. If you do not paint it on real good, you will have problems in the back, but you can leave the fronts dry and be ok. We don't have loosening issues due to the use of anti seize.

 

[NIsaacs]

Just looking for info. Thinking about Jumping into an older f700. I’d gain air brakes, sliding 5th wheel hitch, 17.5k rear axle, real sleeper, Eaton 13speed.

But loose on the motor, it has a 6.6l Brazilian at 185hp. It has a bosh pump, I know I can turn it up some. Also loose the 4x4.

The 6.6 is too small, the 7.8 would be better but likely both would be hard to find parts for. I would rather have a Detroit, at least they can have a true Jake brake Look for something with at least a C or L series Cummins or an IHC DT466.

Nick

 

[Wayne M.]

But why even a F700? If I were looking for a medium, it'd be a Freightshaker M2/ Cummins or a KW/Pete. We have both, and are good trucks. The KW is built like a brick craphouse.

 

[GMconvert]

Ditch the aftermarket wheels and go back to the OEM wheels that were designed to fit properly. Most aftermarket wheels are lug centric, meaning they studs carry all the weight of the vehicle. If you look at all OEM wheels they are hub centric. Hub centric wheels fit the hub perfectly so the inside diameter of the wheel has very little clearance to the hub so the hub is carrying the weight and the studs just retain the wheel to the hub.
Some aftermarket wheel suppliers sell spacers to fit the hub to wheel gap making them more hub centric. Not ideal but better than what you have.

Wrong!.....the studs do not carry the load on lug centric...on both types it is the friction created by the clamping force of the studs and nuts. Hub centric and lug centric are methods of locating the wheel. Ever think about older 1970-ish duallys that had the additional plate....to increase stiffness of the joint! It is about friction and stiffness of wheel/wheels.

 

[GMconvert]

If you had really good close up photos of the stud fracture surface we could tell if it was fatigue or overload!

 

[run2trouble]

I’m looking at wheels that are hub centric for replacements.

Thank everyone for all the input.

 

[run2trouble]

If you had really good close up photos of the fracture surface we could tell if it was fatigue or overload!

I’ll take and post one tomorrow. I’m betting it might be a combination of the two.

 

[GMconvert]

I’m looking at wheels that are hub centric for replacements.

Thank everyone for all the input.

Did the vision wheels have acorn lug nuts or long barrels and washers? I am really curious how they would get the two wheels to line up if they are lug centric.

 

[GMconvert]

Also, is it one outer aluminum wheel and an inner steel wheel? Who makes the inner wheel if it is steel?

I think there are more questions to answer for this problem.

 

[GMconvert]

I really don't like how the pilot of the hub looks. Is that rust or anti seize? I agree with proper fitting wheels. Hard to beat OEM, but quality aftermarket like Alcoa or a premium brand like centerline or ultra shouldn't do this.


Now how does this grab ya?


View attachment 100306

This one came in with a vibration complaint. Here's the thing, when this happened, we were mandated to install wheel nut flags. You know those colorful triangle tip rings that go on the nuts to indicate nut movement. We came to find that since us Mechanics do not handle flats and such, they were leaving the flags on and "getting em to line up" afterwards, aka ovetightening and stretching the studs.
Never in my 30 years here have we seen this, and after we had a "understanding" it's calmed down. But once we got that particular wheel off, the studs looked exactly like yours. Broke flush with spiral fractures.

That looks like a failure from not enough clamping force.... generally when you get past yield strength, the material gets stronger until significant necking occurs....but at that point you shouldn't be able to hold the torque value while still tightening the nut. If the studs failed from over torquing and overload, you shouldn't have the wear on the rim/wheel face....so, that wheel was loose for quite a while before the studs broke to cause that kind of wear.

 

[Wayne M.]

I agree GMconvert. The studs were compromised, and that's the hypothesis here. Unfortunately we don't always have all the variables pinned down, as this is not a controlled environment. Sometimes a situation is created unknowingly, or out of shear laziness. (I think I made a funny there!)

 

[run2trouble]

This is the current stud that broke, I could only find one.

 

[run2trouble]

GMconvert The nuts were acorn style and a steel wheel on the inner, not sure who made them.

I have 6 or so of the studs from the first time they broke at home in the shop.

 

[GMconvert]

View attachment 100363

This is the current stud that broke, I could only find one.

The "Current" stud has clear signs of fatigue with multiple crack initiation sites, all the little ratchet marks around the edge, and also signs of Beach marks on the fracture surface. The remainder looks like an overload failure. The fatigue would indicate not enough clamping force/tension on the stud...basically allowing the wheel to move (even a very small amount) or flex and put a cyclic load on the stud. The next question I would ask is if the inner steel wheels were hub centric? If not, I don't know how they could be centered with acorn style nuts on the outer wheels...which might be a big part of the problem.

 

[GMconvert]

View attachment 100363

This is the current stud that broke, I could only find one.

Not the best angle on the "Old", but looks like some ratchet marks on part of that one....

 

[run2trouble]

I agree with you about the inner wheel, I’m not sure about it.

I can get a better picture of the old studs when I get home. It’ll be a few days.

 

[truckmen]

I can tell you that it was not loose lug nuts!

Because if you had had loose lug nuts, you would have elongated the bolt holes in the wheels enough to be well noticeable before they left the truck. I know because I purposely loosened my lug nuts just a little bit and drove only one mile slowly from my shop in an attempt to break the rust-frozen wheels to the hub. I finally succeeded in breaking the wheels loose but in doing so, actually slotted those bolt hole ever so slightly. Kinda surprised me.

Ralph