2022 oil temperature while towing

[MichaelD86]

I went on a 2k mile road trip with my 11k pound 5th wheel and towed over I-70 through Colorado and Utah. Had quite a few steep long pull. I monitor the engine, trans, oil temp while towing. The engine stayed cool. Max I saw on that was around 213 for short periods. My question is the oil temp. On some of the steep long climbs I saw oil temps around 230. Once the climb was over it went back down and be around 180-195. Is this ok? What is the operating temps for the oil so I know if I’m pushing too hard. Truck is a 2022 2500.

 

[MCanning]

I went on a 2k mile road trip with my 11k pound 5th wheel and towed over I-70 through Colorado and Utah. Had quite a few steep long pull. I monitor the engine, trans, oil temp while towing. The engine stayed cool. Max I saw on that was around 213 for short periods. My question is the oil temp. On some of the steep long climbs I saw oil temps around 230. Once the climb was over it went back down and be around 180-195. Is this ok? What is the operating temps for the oil so I know if I’m pushing too hard. Truck is a 2022 2500.

I believe that temp is okay for the oil; last summer i pulled my fifthwheel with my new to me 2021 ram and saw that type of oil temp and stopped in st a Dodge dealer and asked the service writer about it and he td me that temp range was normal when pulling a grade!

 

[MichaelD86]

Good to hear. Wish they would have given you a range so you know when to worry. I mean, is there a warning light or anything associated to too much heat?

 

[brucejohnson]

From the Owner's manual for a 2020 Ram 2500/3500.

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[sag2]

Unless it changed for 2019+ trucks, the oil temp is a calculated number. I have seen 230 many times when towing long steep grades in summer, especially with the motorcycle on the front carrier blocking air flow.

 

[AH64ID]

As @sag2 said, the temp is fake. It’s based on an algorithm, just like oil pressure. You can forget you even have those two gauges. Watch ECT and trans temp, those are real indications.

From the Owner's manual for a 2020 Ram 2500/3500.

View attachment 140074​

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Due to the lack of an oil temp sensor or switch I suspect that light is for the gas engine trucks.

 

[slowmover]

Big trucks run almost constantly at 220F under a load.

It’s a tightrope walk on some grade ascents.

.

 

[AH64ID]

Big trucks run almost constantly at 220F under a load.

It’s a tightrope walk on some grade ascents.

.

When I ran a real oil temp gauge on my 05 the temps were often +20° to +30° over coolant under load on a grade, and I recall about +35° being the hottest I saw.

At the end of the day, the oil temps were not a concern for quality oils. It’s probably why there is a temp reading, but no sensor. Just like oil pressure. These motors just don’t have oil related issues when properly maintained.

 

[NIsaacs]

As @sag2 said, the temp is fake. It’s based on an algorithm, just like oil pressure. You can forget you even have those two gauges. Watch ECT and trans temp, those are real indications.

Here we go again, Lol

I still say, this is poor advice. Fake is pretty strong language. "Fake" verb. 1. (transitive) to cause (something inferior or not genuine) to appear more valuable, desirable, or real by fraud or pretence.

Simulated, would be a gentler word and allow owners to process their gauge info, in a better light. They (algorithm's) are not as dumb as you say.

When I say Rams maintenance schedule is "generic" you go crazy

When you call Rams gauges "Fake" I go crazy

Which "Algorithm" are you using? There are multiple types depending on the use of info needed. Automotive appears to use "Rule Based" or "Artificial Intelligence" type. They are getting smarter and smarter every year.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) Algorithms in Engine Control. Engine control refers to any system which is part of the engine type design that controls, limits, or monitors engine operation, and is necessary for the continued airworthiness of the engine. Today’s technological advancements have demonstrated the power of artificial intelligence (AI)-based control algorithms and their positive impact on the environment.

Rule based:

II. BACKGROUND In the 1980s and 1990s, researchers began to focus on developing diagnostics tools and the techniques that could predict engine oil pressure failure before they occur. This included the use of sensors and monitoring devices [3]. Research on engine failure prediction had begun to shift towards more quantitative methods, such as using mathematical models to predict the likelihood of engine failure based on oil pressure levels [4]. These models were based on statistical techniques, such as regression analysis, and were used to identify the critical oil pressure levels that were associated with increased risk of engine failure. In the 2000s, researchers began to explore the use of advanced data analysis techniques, such as machine learning and artificial intelligence, to improve the accuracy and reliability of engine oil pressure failure prediction [5]. These studies have focused on developing models that can analyze large amount of data from a variety of sources, such as engine sensors, telematics systems, and maintenance records, to identify patterns and trends that indicates an increased risk of engine oil pressure failure. In the 2000sand 2010s, research on engine failure prediction continued to evolve, with a focus on developing more advanced mathematical models and incorporating data from other vehicle systems.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr.0YUJnwJmmbcAq2lXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzYEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1712657418/RO=10/RU=https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/energies/energies-16-01206/article_deploy/energies-16-01206-v2.pdf?version=1675413690/RK=2/RS=BeGRc15Q_w60hL5hstD6PciAncM-

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...8356.pdf/RK=2/RS=7jSLMpJhRvf0QBsAp0nOFT5nMCs-

 

[AH64ID]

The definition you posted fits 100%, so you may not like it but fake is the proper term.

The fake oil pressure and temperature gauges do appear more valuable on the pretense that they will alert the driver to an issue, which is supported by the verbiage in the owners manual. The readings on the dash are in fact not genuine. That’s about as fake as it gets.

As far as simulated… well a picture is worth 1000 words.



If there is an abnormal temperature or pressure it won’t be registered to the operator, also making it useless. There isn’t any artificial intelligence, simply a basic algorithm that looks at several factors.

Oil temp is a better algorithm than oil pressure, but both aren’t worth looking at.

There isn’t any oil temperature sensor or monitoring device, ergo the rule based algorithm is out. There also isn’t an oil pressure sensor or monitoring device that can allow an algorithm to predict failure before it occurs, the oil pressure switch is 6 psi and min operating pressure is 10.

These two sensors aren’t used for engine control. So AI algorithms in engine control don’t apply. The ECM doesn’t care about either oil temp or pressure for its programming.

You’re giving these specific gauge algorithms way too much credit. They are simple and designed to look good to unknowing owners. The ISB just doesn’t have oil temp or pressure issues, so why waste money on providing real data that will lead to warranty claims and questions. That’s what got us here in the first place, operators not understanding normal oil pressure readings on a diesel so Dodge started dampening the oil pressure sensor signal and then took it out altogether…. To save money.

 

[NIsaacs]

The fake oil pressure and temperature gauges do appear more valuable on the pretense that they will alert the driver to an issue, which is supported by the verbiage in the owners manual. The readings on the dash are in fact not genuine. That’s about as fake as it gets.

This comment appears to contradict. Make up my mind...

There is a graft in one of the links I posted, showing improvement in algorithms over the years. From '06 to '13 there is a small steady increase, then from '13 to '18 a huge jump. I can only assume from '18 to today, another big jump. As an example, my '21 uses a two wire oil pressure sensor v/s the one wire of older trucks.

A basic algorithm is from the stone age and is hand calculated. Today they are computed, the smarter the computer the more accurate the info. Think smart phone.

Actually, sag said the numbers are calculated, he didn't say fake, you did. I like calculated better. Fake just turns me off. Pretty sure Ram/Cummins uses input from many sources to come up with indicated numbers, not just one.

I watch my gauges and recommend other owners do the same.

 

[AH64ID]

This comment appears to contradict. Make up my mind...

What do you find contradictory?

There is a graft in one of the links I posted, showing improvement in algorithms over the years. From '06 to '13 there is a small steady increase, then from '13 to '18 a huge jump. I can only assume from '18 to today, another big jump. As an example, my '21 uses a two wire oil pressure sensor v/s the one wire of older trucks.

We’ve already discussed this…
ENGINE OIL CHANGE

It’s the same sensor since 2007.5 Nothing has changed or improved with regards to this gauge. Yes many things have improved, but not everything.

Put a real oil pressure gauge in your truck and watch it compared to the dash, you’ll see just how fake it is.

A basic algorithm is from the stone age and is hand calculated. Today they are computed, the smarter the computer the more accurate the info. Think smart phone.

Just because something is computed vs hand calculated doesn’t make it more accurate. Think about the wide variances on mpg readings that are computed vs hand calculated. The math isn’t the issue, it’s the inaccuracies in the fuel tables, variances in injectors, fuel pressure sensor variances, etc.

Actually, sag said the numbers are calculated, he didn't say fake, you did. I like calculated better. Fake just turns me off. Pretty sure Ram/Cummins uses input from many sources to come up with indicated numbers, not just one.

Yes I call them fake, they are. You posted the definition and it matches. You posted a word you like better, simulated, yet the word fake is in the definition of simulated.

The number of inputs used to derive the reading is immaterial, the number is still a guess based on a table not on readings. Calculated, simulated, fake, etc… it all means the same thing, it’s not a real number and not a real gauge. At the end of the day if your oil cooler gets plugged and your oil runs hot you will NEVER know by looking at the gauge. Same is true if your oil pressure relief valve sticks open and you only make 15 psi at 2500 rpms, no indications. The algorithms are there to give realistic looking numbers to most drivers all the time, it’s eyewash.

I watch my gauges and recommend other owners do the same.

So do I, on the gauges that mean something. You will not ever learn anything useful watching oil temp or pressure. If pressure drops below 6 psi you’ll get a warning alerting you to the issue, that’s real and that’s useful (kinda, it still takes 30 seconds of less than 6 psi to get a warning).

 

[NIsaacs]

When I ran a real oil temp gauge on my 05 the temps were often +20° to +30° over coolant under load on a grade, and I recall about +35° being the hottest I saw.

The OP saw the same temps with his gauges, pretty accurate in my opinion...unlike you, I would not discount that at all.

I watch mine, you are welcome to not.

However, when you call them fake, I will respond. That is an injustice to Ram/Cummins.

In the future, just call them simulated, I will not go crazy, Lol

 

[AH64ID]

The OP saw the same temps with his gauges, pretty accurate in my opinion...unlike you, I would not discount that at all.

I watch mine, you are welcome to not.

However, when you call them fake, I will respond. That is an injustice to Ram/Cummins.

In the future, just call them simulated, I will not go crazy, Lol

I don’t use fake to upset you, I use it because it’s accurate (by the definition you posted). I certainly don’t think simulated is wrong, especially when the word fake is in the definition. Fake is just more accurate and meaningful.


As I’ve stated before they did a pretty decent job with oil temp. It’s fairly close to realistic most of the time. That’s all fine and dandy until there is an issue because it won’t register one. That’s why it’s fake and useless.

The injustice is not to Ram/Cummins, it’s to the owners/operators of the truck that are given information and instructions on the pretense that it’s accurate and meaningful. It’s disgraceful that Ram does this to its owners and operators, not that owners/operators point it out to one another.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Now children!!!!!!!

 

[Ozymandias]

Cummins is, it seems, absolutely confident about their engines that they never had a temp sensor nor a pressure sensor. It would cost them the price of a bagel or less to do so.

 

[AH64ID]

Cummins is, it seems, absolutely confident about their engines that they never had a temp sensor nor a pressure sensor. It would cost them the price of a bagel or less to do so.

It wasn’t the cost of the hardware, it was repeated wasted man hours inspecting trucks with normal oil pressure. The gauge moves rapidly from idle to 1500 rpms, unlike a gas engine, so people were taking their trucks in for warranty claims when it was working normally.

Yes, there is high confidence in the system but I think that’s from Ram as oil temp and pressure aren’t part of ECM programming.

 

[Ozymandias]

It wasn’t the cost of the hardware, it was repeated wasted man hours inspecting trucks with normal oil pressure. The gauge moves rapidly from idle to 1500 rpms, unlike a gas engine, so people were taking their trucks in for warranty claims when it was working normally.

Yes, there is high confidence in the system but I think that’s from Ram as oil temp and pressure aren’t part of ECM programming.

True but they still could have the sensors for the ECM only and show a "filtered" value to the driver.
Fake gauges are the standard nowadays, especially coolant temp is almost never true as like you say, to many people are worried about the readings. Especially with newer vehicles that run generally much higher temperatures then "in the good ole days".
Just reminds me of my last new Volvo Semi that runs 220 all day long and if the temp wants to fall below the threshold part of the oil is rerouted internally to a second set of piston jets to stay warm.

 

[NIsaacs]

As I’ve stated before they did a pretty decent job with oil temp. It’s fairly close to realistic most of the time. That’s all fine and dandy until there is an issue because it won’t register one. That’s why it’s fake and useless.

If the oil temp will register ambient on startup and 230 degrees towing, why will it not register an issue?

Same with oil pressure. If it registers low hot and high cold and varies with rpm, why will it not show an issue?

 

[AH64ID]

If the oil temp will register ambient on startup and 230 degrees towing, why will it not register an issue?

Same with oil pressure. If it registers low hot and high cold and varies with rpm, why will it not show an issue?

Because it’s programmed to give “normal” readings. You’re simply seeing what it’s programmed to show based on other data.

How could it ever show an issue? The truck doesn’t have anything installed to help the computer decide there is an issue. Giving indications of a failure, or impending failure, is impossible for temperature and only total failure indications are possible with pressure.