20K Oil Change Anyone???

[Cummins12V98]

My Son did a full delete at 104k on his 15 3500 Limited 4x4 LB.

At 111k he changed from AMZ/OIL 15-40 Signature Series LE oil to AMZ/OIL Diesel Marine 15-40 NON LE. Both changes AMZ/OIL (Donaldson) oil filter.

So 10,350 miles full emissions and 7k deleted miles.

Blackstone says to go 20k next time. The comparisons are based on 7,700 mile average run.

I think he should try 20k next what say you?

He asked their opinion changing to the Diesel Marine, they gave it a thumbs up.

 

[MRFost]

Since you have both deleted and undeleted miles, you would be basing that decision on a potentially bad data point. I would run conservatively, and get a full change data point based only upon deleted.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I would think it would only get better if it were all deleted miles???

 

[AH64ID]

He should switch back to the DME oil, it's better all around. AME is a great oil, DME is just better.

Number do look decent thou, TBN isn't as good as the verbiage suggests but then again poor verbiage is why I quit using blackstone.

It's hard to say on deleted vs OE, as the motor is now tuned differently. At a minimum cylinder pressures are higher due to the loss of the EGR, even if the tune is stock with deletes. In theory deleted will be better on the oil but his soot level is already low, and that's the biggest benefit to a delete in terms of the oil on a 13+ truck.

 

[brucejohnson]

Aw heck. Just take periodic samples thru the desired period. If something looks a little off then you could adjust and change early.

 

[sag2]

I have used SGS Herguth Labs for over 15 years for all the fluid samples, last count in 2018 I had paid for 68 samples. I just looked back through a few of them and they all show minimum TBN of 2.0 or 3.0 depending on the oil brand and type. I have used several in the last couple years with TBN's below 2.0 to help win Lemon Law cases for FCA showing lack of maintenance.
So just based on Herguth using 2.0 as the minimum TBN, I probably would not run much longer than he did.
The other difference between Blackstone is Herguth compares the used oil to the reference oil which is the exact oil as it came out of the bottle. So you know what additives came out of the bottle vs. what the used oil has remaining.
Sorry, I can't get them to display correctly.

 

[AH64ID]

I have used SGS Herguth Labs for over 15 years for all the fluid samples, last count in 2018 I had paid for 68 samples. I just looked back through a few of them and they all show minimum TBN of 2.0 or 3.0 depending on the oil brand and type. I have used several in the last couple years with TBN's below 2.0 to help win Lemon Law cases for FCA showing lack of maintenance.
So just based on Herguth using 2.0 as the minimum TBN, I probably would not run much longer than he did.
The other difference between Blackstone is Herguth compares the used oil to the reference oil which is the exact oil as it came out of the bottle. So you know what additives came out of the bottle vs. what the used oil has remaining.
Sorry, I can't get them to display correctly.

Cummins considers oil to have depleted TBN when "2.5 number minimum or half new oil value or equal to total acid number (TAN)"

The oil in the sample above is worn out on 2 factors, 2.5 min TBN and only 25% of new TBN... I would not be extending, I would be shortening the interval.

TBN is lower on CK oils than CI oils, but without as much sulfur in the diesel TBN isn't needed for longevity. How long was that oil in the truck, months wise? TBN will deplete over time regardless of miles and is one of the reasons calendar time limits are put on oils in addition to miles/hours.

I looked back thru all my recent 5.9 UOA's and most of my samples (7-10K miles) have a TBN of ±8. I did have 2 of them read in the 6's with 15K, and 22K, miles on the oil a long time ago.. but don't put that many miles on the truck anymore. Now I change on 12 month intervals, regardless of mileage.

 

[JR]

Miles is one thing but he needs to track hours also. Average mph, how much idle time, etc really comes into play the higher the mileage. He may already be doing this and it just doesn't show on the report.

Not trying to start an oil comparison war, but I'm a bit surprised at some of those numbers. Especially the TBN. At 14-15k mile intervals on $7 per gallon Mobil Delvac 1300 my tbn has been consistently 5-6. Wear metals also very low. There are too many variables for this to mean a thing in regard to your son's truck, but I would definitely be checking at the same interval before proceeding further.

Or just don't worry about it and change at 15k intervals. Oil is cheap...

 

[gsbrockman]

Miles is one thing but he needs to track hours also. Average mph, how much idle time, etc really comes into play the higher the mileage. He may already be doing this and it just doesn't show on the report.

Not trying to start an oil comparison war, but I'm a bit surprised at some of those numbers. Especially the TBN. At 14-15k mile intervals on $7 per gallon Mobil Delvac 1300 my tbn has been consistently 5-6. Wear metals also very low. There are too many variables for this to mean a thing in regard to your son's truck, but I would definitely be checking at the same interval before proceeding further.

Or just don't worry about it and change at 15k intervals. Oil is cheap...

I agree on everything above......
As an example, my last oil change interval was in the amount of 13,577 additional miles, 37 additional idle hours, and 249 additional drive hours (average mph this interval was 54.52 mph).

More than once I’ve told @Cummins12V98 that I was NOT impressed with any of his reports regarding the TBN’s of his highly recommended AZZ/OIL that he cheerleads so much about. Additionally.......lots of my earlier reports were with 5W40 Rotella T6 and as of lately almost exclusively 5W40 Delo 400 LE.

 

[AH64ID]

As noted above I’ve never had TBN issues with Amsoil in my 5.9, but I won’t push it past 12 months and mainly for TBN.

No reports on my 6.7 yet. Next year.

 

[Tuesdak]

You got your money's worth out of the oil... Note the viscosity is about to "step out of grade" to a 50 weight. I would sample (sample not change) the oil at 10,000 miles and again at 15,000 miles to see if the changes are hurting or helping the oil. I would not blindly run it 20K until you know it's going to make 20K. Wildcard of high summer temps may have helped oil possibly overheat and thicken up.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I am no expert but Blackstone shows the TBN needs to be above 1.

The TBN on the LE oil is a lower number 10.1 than the non LE 12.0.

My Son drives a lot in the DFW area so it's likely 6mo or so.

Here is my last report at 15k, my TBN is higher at 4.6 to his 2.5. I am curious why his that much lower at only 2,350 more miles.

I have not done the research but I had been told in the past the Diesel Marine was a better oil if you could use it. Interesting they said it was a good option.

 

[Cummins12V98]

You got your money's worth out of the oil... Note the viscosity is about to "step out of grade" to a 50 weight. I would sample (sample not change) the oil at 10,000 miles and again at 15,000 miles to see if the changes are hurting or helping the oil. I would not blindly run it 20K until you know it's going to make 20K. Wildcard of high summer temps may have helped oil possibly overheat and thicken up.

I think you are correct on checking! I will explain to him how to sample from the pipe plug on the filter housing.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My Son corrected me. He has been running the OE 15-40.

 

[AH64ID]

I am no expert but Blackstone shows the TBN needs to be above 1.

One of several reasons I quit using blackstone. They compare your oil to to other used oils, not to new oil or engine manufacturer specs.

Cummins publishes a bulletin on oil and it contains data for UOA, that I quoted above on TBN.

The TBN on the LE oil is a lower number 10.1 than the non LE 12.0.

Correct, but that has to do with fuel not oil longevity. ULSD depletes TBN slower than LSD, so the TBN can be lower (and is in all CK vs CI oil's I've researched) and still get the same life.

There is more to oil than just TBN.

I have not done the research but I had been told in the past the Diesel Marine was a better oil if you could use it. Interesting they said it was a good option.

It is a good option, but not a better option.

In the past AME was better than DME, but when DME was reformulated to meet CK specs that changed. DME is now the better oil, and the preferred oil.

My Son corrected me. He has been running the OE 15-40.

Sounds like old CJ stock if that's the case, as OE hasn't been around for quite some time.

You should ask him how long it was in his crankcase, I'm curious.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Cummins12V98 said: ↑
My Son corrected me. He has been running the OE 15-40.
Sounds like old CJ stock if that's the case, as OE hasn't been around for quite some time.

You should ask him how long it was in his crankcase, I'm curious.

Sorry I mis understood it was Heavy-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil 15W-40

Would you consider this better or worse than the Diesel Marine?

I will let you know on time when he replies.

 

[Jim W]

Please answer me a question about oil usage? Why is everyone trying to extend the oil change interval for your engine?

To me oil is cheap compared to replacing or rebuilding your diesel engine or any engine for that matter. This cost me $46.55 for my last oil change! One Fleetguard StrataPore filter and 3, gallons of Shell Rotella 15W-40 T4 engine oil. I see nothing wrong about changing the engine oil at the interval that your OM states. Or at least every 6 months or in my case 7,500 miles! This takes all of an hour or so, to allow the oil to fully drain and to remove the old oil filter. Then install a new filter and oil, plus grease the front-end components at least on my truck!

I to do an oil analysis but to see what contaminates are in the oil when I change. This way I know what the condition of the engine is based on the oil sample.

 

[kthaxton]

Please answer me a question about oil usage? Why is everyone trying to extend the oil change interval for your engine?

To me oil is cheap compared to replacing or rebuilding your diesel engine or any engine for that matter.

Right?

"what are your hobbies?":
"I analyze the hell out of oil, and sometimes DEF"
"Sounds fun".

 

[Cummins12V98]

I have no front end parts to grease.

I may break down and change mine at only 8-9k this time instead of my normal 15k. Oil was last changed a full year ago, It literally has been driven twice in the last 5 months. I will do an analysis for fun.

 

[Jim W]

Right?

"what are your hobbies?":
"I analyze the hell out of oil, and sometimes DEF"
"Sounds fun".

I am retired have been since Feb 2009. My wife and I travel the US with our 5er, usually from spring to the fall. We go about once a month from anywhere a week to two weeks at a time some times longer. I also do some wood working making Shaker style furniture I am no expert but the wife likes it.

I also do some photography but nothing special.

Plus we also watch our grandkids in their sports and school plays, this keeps us busy also.