Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 215 Injector mileage

[Balzac]

I changed out my 161 injectors for a set of 215's (rebuilt) and at the same time added a friction reducing additive to the oil, and started using a fuel additive from the same company. I was consistantly getting 16mpg(imperial) while pulling my 12,000 lb 5th. and 26 -28 empty before the additives and injectors.

Right away I took the 5er to Minot ND and back and got from 9. 9 to 13. 2mpg. Also blew a head gasket, and had it replaced at Cummins in Minot. The 5 star dealer quoted $1550 Cummins $750.

The bill was $1075. also they reported all cylinders scored , (not lightly). I did get her hot as I was losing coolant, but have had her hot before I changed the last head gasket last spring, with no scoring.

I am wondering why the gasket blew and if the additive had anything to do with the soring. Also if the injectors would lower my mileage that much. (no smoke, slid housing back) Your opinions welcome.

This additive forms a one micron thick monomolecular coating on all metal.

 

[MDKram]

Sorry to hear about the troubles. I don't have any comments at this point but I'm sure the topic will come up this Saturday at our lunch gathering. Scotty and I were talking about head gasket problems tonight and will continue our discussion on Saturday. You may find some answers or perhaps enlighten us! Send me a PM if you need directions.

Regards, Marc

 

[Cooker]

I can't imagine for any reason the injectors could possibly hurt your mileage that bad. Maybe 1-2 MPG tops, but I think even that is a bit much.



What oil additive are you running. Belive it or not, I would lean heavily on this being the cause of your problem.

 

[M Barnett]

Are you running a pyro gage? How hot did it get? I personally think all oil additive is snake oil. All oil companys say don't use it.

Michael

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

All this happened after you added the oil additive? Was the oil additive a teflon additive? Is the piston and cylinder damage similar to the damage caused by plugging a piston cooling nozzle with the foil seal from an oil jug. If you have lost lubrication and are starting to gouge out the cylinders, this will take more fuel (e. g. more internal engine friction).

 

[Balzac]

The additive is Lube Tec anti-friction Metal Treatment.

Peers sells their products I believe. I e-mailed him and he doesn't think it was the Lubetec! Their website is www.lubetec.com Since I put the scoop on my hood I have not been over 1300 degrees Pre-turbo. I have always had trouble with coolant at high temps. when towing in the mountains. Running low on coolant after the head gasket went wasn't the best for temp. but I did stop and add water slowly as temp. went up.

Jim

 

[JohnE]

Balzac;

What are your typical pulling speeds? My guess is that by changing to the 215's, you gained around 10 mph towing speed and really kept your foot in it to overhead the truck, again.

Not trying to be criticial, but that is a very limiting factor with diesel engines.

Hence, the consequences of running HOT





SCORED PISTON



<small><em>edit: couldn't get the image to resize so I changed it from a direct post to a link. </em></small>

 

[QRTRHRS]

Jim, sorry about your troubles. I can't be anymore help than the others except for this comment.



I do a lot of R&D at work. We try to limit our changes or tweaks or whatever as much as possible trying to define what does or does not work out.



Fuel additives are pretty much inoculous but snake oil scares me. You may never know what happened but your lesson is one to be passed on.

 

[DavidGardner]

Most if not all engine manufactuers (sp) say do not add aftermarket oil additives. This incloudes Cummins, Dodge Chevrolet ect. -ect. -ect. If you use the factory recomended oil you should have no problems. Of couse there are always going to be some snake oil salesman that is going to try to convince you his pruduct is goi9ng to make your engine more powerfull, get better milage and increase engine life. Just remember the 3 biggest lies in the world are 1 the check is in the mail" 2 mony isnt everything" 3 Size dosent matter".

 

[redram]

Some things are not adding up eher.



One - when you were getting 26-28 mpg with the smaller injectors, what spped, rpm, gear ratio, and tire size were you running to get that kind of mileage?

I'm in concurrance with the other guys, larger injectors may have affected fuel mileage by 10-20% (1. 5 -3 mpg) but not as much as you reported.



Two - you say you never ran over 1300 F before the hood scoop?

I can't get my truck over 1050 F and I'm in Houston with ambinet air temps +95 F. What are you doing to get your exhaust temps that high to cause damage to the head gasket?

Highly modified truck? Timing? Pushed the fuel plate forward? Air Fuel ratio out of whack?



Three - there are some oil additives that do contain chemistry that at elevated temperatures can break down and form corrosive acids that could damage an engine. However, in most cases, this will show up on soft metals (ie bearings) before a hard surface such as a cylinder bore.



I've asked LubeTec to send me a MSDS but if you have any info, please send it to me via private email.

 

[Balzac]

RedRam thanks for your reply and the rest of you as well.

To answer your questions;

1/ Most of my driving is around the big city, freeway, and secondary roads, Speeds generally 60-70 mph. 3;55 gears, original tire sizes.

2/ As in my sig. #6, boost elbow, GSK-3000, timing @ 14 degrees, fuel plate stock position, housing slid back almost all the way, no smoke. The 1300 degrees hapened twice, pulling 18,000 up steep hill oat 95degrees, and on the dyno, no moving air. We haven't decided the head gasket blew because of high egt. but are looking for answers.

Also there are no solids in this oil additive. LubeTec also claims their product has been tested to over 1400 degrees with no change or detrimental affects.

Jim

 

[redram]

I doubt that it will stand up to 1400 F without breaking down into some type of byproducts.



Most oil related products will have flash points well under 600 F.



I tried to get an MSDS from these guys and they sent me marketing hype. No physical data not even a proper MSDS as is required by Federal Law. I'm giving them a second chance but their website is very uninformative with alot of big promises.....

Sounds like more ProLong / Zmax marketing hype. Check out www.ftc.org and search for the last two along with Slick 50 and you'll see million dollar judgements against them for false advertising. These guys might be just too low on the radar scope to have been found out yet.



Sorry about not reading your signature... duh... . the TST 5 makes how much horsepower torque with the small injectors. I wonder if putting in the 215's threw you into a operating region that was unsafe. More is not always better (for reliability any ways)

I know that with my 215 / 5 speed, TST would not recommend using the plate set up for the automatic truck as the injector pump is not calibrated for it. Wonder if your combination put you in a "red" zone.

 

[dseabaugh]

I put the Slick 50 in everything in my '87 at 45,000 miles. By 65,000 miles I was pouring in a quart of oil every 300 miles. It started using shortly after I put it in and constanty got worse.

 

[Balzac]

Actually Piers advised me to use the 215's to lower my EGT, knowing about all of my mods.

I can get a MSDS sheet from them as they are here in Calgary. Will send it next week.

Jim

 

[shendren]

cummins says to never add anything to the oil.

 

[Gifford]

Lessee here...

16 mpg pulling a 12k lb. 5'er? I dont think so... .

(Not to mention 26-28 empty whatta load of BS)

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

No BS, those are Canadian gallons.

 

[GSchlegel]

Re: Lessee here...

Originally posted by Gifford

16 mpg pulling a 12k lb. 5'er? I dont think so... .

(Not to mention 26-28 empty whatta load of BS)

I think he might be talking kilometers, not statute miles.



Gene

 

[fortunate1]

Imperial gallons are 20% more volume that US gallons. So, the milage figures are going to be 20% higher. 26 miles per Imperial gallon = 21. 7 miles per US gallon. Not at all unreasonable for an unloaded Ram on the highway. 28 would convert to 23. 3 mpg. Again, realistic. My truck has run that, if I drove carefully and wasn't trying to climb mountains at 75-80 mph.



I tend to think that the extra "magic stuff" in the oil additives may actually work to clog up some of the oil galleries & "pipelines" within the engine. Then oil starvation will occur in some or all of the engine.



I have 215's in my truck too, and they don't cause me any trouble. Sorry to hear about yours.