.223 Reloading Problem....

[HEMI®Dart]

My Buddy just started reloading . 223's. I am a helper. Here is the problem we have ran into. The bullet is bulging the case after it's assembled. It won't chamber. Or from the other thread last week: It won't go in battery.



New:



52 grain Sierra bullets

New Winchester Brass

powder measure is right on the money



The overall length of the finished cartridge is right on the money. +/- . 001



We don't have a crimping die yet.



Any ideas?

 

[JLEONARD]

Are you chamfering/deburring the inside of the case neck prior to bullet assembly?

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Are you chamfering/deburring the inside of the case neck prior to bullet assembly?

Good question. I will ask him today.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Good question. I will ask him today.

Yes, we are champering & de-burring the brass.



If we lubed the inside of the neck (we lube the bullets) would that help?

 

[The patriot]

It might. You might want to unscrew the seating die body just a little. Sounds like it's crushing the case.

Test the die on a case w/o a bullet. If it's crushing the case... . that's the problem.

My next guess would have been the sizing die is re sizing the inside of the neck too much, but I have made mine smaller by polishing it with a dremel and I have not had that problem.

I prefer to make the neck sizer smaller to get better bullet "pull" so I dont have to crimp them to shoot them through a semi auto. I've NEVER had a bullet setback issue doing it this way.

HTH

Eric

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Thanks Patriot. Your answer is exactly what the guy at the gun shop we went to today said to do.



Hey while you are here, what's your opinion on crimping the case? The guy at the gun shop says a crimped reloaded cartridge and an uncrimped cartdridge will shoot the same. No difference. I may have read differently.

 

[Bloomy]

I'm gonna ditto what Patriot said. Also as Patriot said there shouldn't be any reason to crimp the round unless (I haven't ever had to) your shooting from a semi. What dies are you using?



thomas

 

[The patriot]

Crimp:

You'll get a LOT of different info on if to do it, and how much crimp.

I pulled my sizing die apart and the insize sizing barrel to glass smooth. It removes a little of the metal, but what it really accomplishes is, it wont stretch the case while the button is being pulled through it. It's also a little easier to pull through this way. I use the Hornady 1 shot case lube, it gets into the neck, and this also helps.

I bought a Lee "factory crimp" die long ago, but I dont personally find a need for it using the above method.

I shoot my AR all the time and I've NEVER had any problems with bullet setback.

A high bullet "pull" is one of the keys to accuracy in the AR rifles.

~Neck sizing... not necessary with the AR. A high bullet pull will be of more benefit.

~Weighing brass batches... . eh maybe at the 600 yd line and if youre shooting in the "master" class or better. Otherwise it's a waste.

~Weighing powder charges... . same as brass.

I use winchester or remington 7 1/2 (BR) primers.

I'm talking semi auto reloading. AR rifles.

I've been using the RCBS full length dies. RCBS customer service has been GREAT!

Eric

PS Hemi, run the ram all the way up to the top with a sized case, then adjust the seating die so that it just touches the shoulder of the sized case.

Before you load a bunch like that, be sure they'll chamber, you may need to give the die a small adjustment. Just dont over do it or you'll be crushing cases again.

 

[daveshoe]

''The bullet is bulging the case after assembly'' ''The overall length is right on''

My question is,can you see a bulge,or are you just assuming the case is bulged because it will not chamber? Overall length is pretty much useless when measured to the bullet tip. The place that matters is at the junction of the bullet with the rifling of the barrel. the bullet needs to be set back a little from the rifling lands. This is imperative with semi-auto rifles. [I usually experiment with -. 005 to -. 0015 to see what is most accurate--and that is for bolt actions] If the bullet is touching or worse yet,engraving the rifling,dangerous pressure and case failure can result.

First,check to see if the case chambers without a bullet seated. Then check a case after it has been resised and the neck expander button removed. Re-install the neck expander and see if the round chambers. If it does not,the neck expander button is pulling too hard and setting out the shoulder. If all is still OK,I would suspect that the bullet is not seated deep enough. Take a candle on a dummy round[no powder or primer] and smoke the bullet. If you see rifling marks when chambered,that means it needs to be set deeper.

You can purchase carbide neck expander buttons,and they are self-lubricating--that is they do not pull the neck/shoulder forward like the standard expander.

Take this problem one step at a time,and let us know how it turns out.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Thanks for the help guys. We backed off the seating die a little and it solved the problem.



Another quick question:



What be be the difference between Winchester brass (what we are using now) and this Federal Gold Medal Match brass? Stricter quality control?

 

[The patriot]

In an AR stick with the Winchester or better yet military brass. The Federal is softer, and the primer pockets are a little larger, so they cant be reloaded as much.

If you dont mind removing the military crimp, the military brass is best. And cheapest.



If the Federals price was right, I'd use it 1 or 2X's then chuck it depending on how the primers feel.

I'd use whatever is the cheapest. I shoot in the marksman class, unless youre up in the expert or better class, save your $$$ and practice.

If youre just plinking, get the cheapest and let it stay on the ground after 2X's.

JM. 02

Eric

 

[HEMI®Dart]

''The bullet is bulging the case after assembly'' ''The overall length is right on''

My question is,can you see a bulge,or are you just assuming the case is bulged because it will not chamber? Overall length is pretty much useless when measured to the bullet tip. The place that matters is at the junction of the bullet with the rifling of the barrel. the bullet needs to be set back a little from the rifling lands. This is imperative with semi-auto rifles. [I usually experiment with -. 005 to -. 0015 to see what is most accurate--and that is for bolt actions] If the bullet is touching or worse yet,engraving the rifling,dangerous pressure and case failure can result.

First,check to see if the case chambers without a bullet seated. Then check a case after it has been resised and the neck expander button removed. Re-install the neck expander and see if the round chambers. If it does not,the neck expander button is pulling too hard and setting out the shoulder. If all is still OK,I would suspect that the bullet is not seated deep enough. Take a candle on a dummy round[no powder or primer] and smoke the bullet. If you see rifling marks when chambered,that means it needs to be set deeper.

You can purchase carbide neck expander buttons,and they are self-lubricating--that is they do not pull the neck/shoulder forward like the standard expander.

Take this problem one step at a time,and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks Dave for the information We will try the candle thing.



The case were visibly bulged & wouldn't chamber.



My friend bought a Stag M4. His heart said Colt AR15, but his wallet said Stag Arms. :-laf

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Patriot & Others,



Remember the thread a year ago "Steel Plate at the

Shooting range"?



I bought 5 boxes of Lake City M855 SS109 Penetrator ammo and we did some penetration tests. At about 10 yards, it almost made it through . 440 thick steel. HUGE crater, steel core evident, BIG dimple & BIG Crack on back side. It was a blast testing them. My co-worker said the steel should be 4150.



My digital camera is broken. When I get a new one I will post pictures. The results are no BS.



At first buddy thought because they were "Armor Piercing" they may be illegal (oh please) :-laf I set him straight right from the ATF webpage:



ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds as AP ammo: :



5. 56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.

. 30-06 M2 AP ammo.





See my full review at Cheaper than dirt. Scroll down. I wrote "Strong penetrating Ammo" Reviewer: Unstable (they raised the price by 2 bucks a box after my review) :-laf



http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM223-46090-66.html

 

[HEMI®Dart]

While we are on the .223 subject..

Ammoman has the . 223 cartridge:



80 GRAIN . 223 AMMO



ONLY FOR USE IN THROATED MATCH GUNS



DO NOT BUY THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE ONE



500 TO 1000 YARD AMMO.



If these won't fit in the magazine, wouldn't the bullet be on the rifling lands when chambered?

 

[The patriot]

Theyre for slow foir rifle competition.

Fired single shot out of an AR.

You wont have the problem mentioned above by daveshoe if youre firing your ammo out of a magazine.

The bullet will not be able to fit in the mag if it's much over 2. 26" (IIRC)

The standard 223 chamber is "long" enough to allow the bullet (no matter what shape) to rest off the grooves if fired out of the mag on an AR.

What daveshoe is talking about has more to do with that 80Gr match ammo than magazine fired ammo. The 80 gr ammo will NOT fit in an AR mag.

I have one of these for slow fire.

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