Archived 240k on original injectors.

[floyd.chaffee@gmail.com]

First let me say, I parked it.
Actually, the mechanics scared me enough, that I towed the truck from Tonopah, Nevada to Tonopah, Arizona.
I have an 2004.5 Cummings.
I have 240k on the original injectors. I had thought that injectors lasted the life of the vehicle. WRONG!
I stopped to have my alternator checked, because my gauge was showing low voltage.
I was told by a mechanic that I could've ruined my engine. It still runs fine,but, I haven't started it since I was told I might've damaged the engine. I've change all filters every 7500 miles since the day I've owned it, he said this is what saved me.
This is my question:

First, is getting reman injectors,OK. Should I have mine rebuilt, or should I get new ones?
If remans,or new, where's the best place to get them?
Second, I spoke with two mechanics; one said to replace the fuel tubes and the electrical injector grid. The second said just replace the injectors as the other two don't wearout. Whom should I listen to?
Third, what else should I repair/replace at this time?

 

[AllianceDiesel]

1. There is no g in cummins.

2. Why do you think injectors are bad?

3. Common rail injectors last around 100k miles depending on a ton a variables (idle time, engine run time, fuel quality). You have to remember, these injectors fire 3 times every compression stroke.

4. Do not take it to "mechanic #1" connector tubes are just fine and I dont know what a injector grid is.

5. Do not buy reman bosch injectors, only buy bosch reman injectors that are actually rebuilt by bosch. Or if money allows get big bang injectors since they are completly brand new injectors.

6. I had 224,000 on my stock injectors that I changed with bosch remans just for piece of mind. I also installed a 3 micron fuel filter setup between the stock filter and cp3.

7. Make sure you take it to someone who actually knows cummins engines. Dont take it somewhere that thinks they are a mechanic

 

[JR]

IF your injector(s) are bad you were smart to have it towed. I wonder how they came to this conclusion, although the mileage dictates it is very possible.

This is where people have horrible experiences with diesels. They listen to the advice of a mechanic that makes his living wrenching on minivans and sedans and the occasional half ton. They give out bad advice, the consumer listens to what they say and so begins a long expensive road of slapping high dollar parts on a truck that leaves the customer frustrated and in the poor house. Before you have anybody else touch it find the best diesel mechanic you can find in your area and take it to them. This may or may not be a dealership. Most dealerships in my area only keep at best one mechanic around and they aren't very well trained IMO. Unless you have a dealer that sells a lot of diesel trucks you'll probably be better off finding a good independent shop that specializes in diesels. Do your homework on this and your wallet will thank you in the long run.

 

[Killgore]

That is good advice from JR. I would suggest that if replacement of the injectors is required, go with new Bosch. They are available and reasonably priced. I got mine from Exergy Performance.
- Ed

 

[jhenderson]

What does low voltage have to do with injectors? If it's running fine what makes you think your injectors are bad? Injectors fail for a number of reasons, the top one being bad fuel. There are quite a few hot shotters who've gotten 500,000 miles or more out of their original injectors so replacing on mileage is ridiculous. Tell us why you think their bad.

 

[mwilson]

I am not getting the alternator / injector thing either. We would really like to know how they arrived at the diagnosis.

What does the work order say??

Mike.

 

[GAmes]

A-2-Z Diesel is an advertiser in the TDR magazine. They are in Mesa. www.A2ZDIESEL.com 480-288-0177 I'm puzzled as to why it would harm a vehicle's engine to tow it. I know that a lot of transmissions can be ruined by towing without removing the driveshafts, but the engine?

 

[NIsaacs]

I'm puzzled as to why it would harm a vehicle's engine to tow it.


I think the mechanic spooked him into towing/hauling the truck home. That if he drove it, the damaged injectors would make it worse.

Nick

 

[GAmes]

Thanks, misread it.

 

[Killgore]

Floyd, I think that mechanic did more than spook you! That tow/haul was somewhat over 500 miles. He didn't perhaps own the tow truck?

 

[cerberusiam]

Not getting what the low voltage has to do with injectors so if you could fill in the rest of the details it might help. Could be they were just looking to get a tow bill?

Injectors are wear items, have been since the first ISB rolled off the assembly line. They will need replaced at some point, that is all determined by miles, fuel quality and your driving style.

If you want to keep your truck and have less problems NEW injectors are highly recommended. There are several places you can order from with some high quailty OE replacements that will insure you you less issues. Remans can work but they are iffy. In 1 year we have replaced 2 Bosch remans for failing and the others just don't sound that good. Let me know what you want for injectors and I can give you some good sources.

When you install injectors you WANT to change the cross over tubes, especially with that many miles. The tubes can be re-used but you have to be pretty critical looking the ends where the seat in the injector to make sure there is no grooving or marring and they all need polished up before reuse. Failure to make an adequate sealing surface will result in problem chasing, just the way they are. The second issue with the cross over tubes is the life expectancy. These things take pressure all the time, up to 30k psi, and they will weaken over time. Splitting a used tube is not an uncommon occurence. Last but not least, the tubes have edge filters in them that break up any solids that make it thru the filters. Those filters will plug and deform over time so it is a good idea to replace after sevral 100k miles and stock filtration.

The injectro gris is likely the wring harness for the injectors themselves. The 03-05 have a much different setup than the 06+ trucks that are problematic. All you really need to do on your truck is have the orings in the connectors replaced whe they have the riser off to do injectors.

Our resident parts guru mwilson can get you the name\number fo the parts you need to do that.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

When Bosch introduced HPCR injection, they specified 4 micron filtration. Cummins and Ram did not offer that quality of filtration until recently, and commercial diesel fuels usuallly have particulates bigger than 4 and less in size than what is filtered by conventional filters that are usually rated 7-10 microns. Thus, with the very high pressures. the injectors did not live as long as they could with good filtration. As above, get a good mechanic and he must inspect the feed tubes, but they may well be reusable. Today you can get good reman injectors from a few authorized Bosch shops like BD Power, using only Bosch parts such as the critical check valve and seat.

 

[floyd.chaffee@gmail.com]

I guess I gave just enough information to confuse everyone. So, I'll start from the beginning.
Once or twice a month when I start my truck I get a small puff of whitish smoke. No hard starting, just the puff. The truck runs just fine.
I was talking to a friend of mine about the mileage on the truck and that everything was still original. He suggested that I should've changed the injectors 140k ago.
I get a call that my mother in Hospice and I need to get to Nevada, Now!
I take off thinking that I'm on borrowed time on the injectors and I'm going to destroy my engine. I keep under the speed limit all the way there.
No problems until I'm about 250 miles from Tonopah. Then I notice the gizmo on the headliner is literally counting down on fuel milage. Normally, it stays around 20 to 23 mpg. I'm watching it go from 20 to 15 to 10 and down until it reading 3 mpg
I'm not running hot, no problems, just mileage going down. Like a bonehead I never looked at my actual fuel gauge just watching the gizmo countdown like a stopwatch Its at this point I notice my battery gauge is showing around 10 volts. I'm getting nervous, but no actual engine performance problems.

The truck is still running just fine though. I stop at an service station and the mechanic checks the alternator, its fine, I have an bad battery, I replace bad battery. I contain with the trip. I get to Tonopah and stop at another station to fuel up, its here I get into an discussion with two mechanics about the 240k on the engine.

So, here I think back to my friend and him telling me I should've change the injectors 140k miles ago. Here the mechanics put their two cents in. Telling me I could've melted pistons and such. I get to my destination and park. I don't start the truck again. I complete my visit.
Its at this point I put the 6 speed trans and transfer case into neutral,put a towbar on the truck, rent an Uhaul and tow it back to Arizona.

So, at this point. I think my best bet is get it to the dealer I purchased it from and have them perform and complete diagnostics.

Now, that I've written this I feel really stupid.
I suppose I overreacted to the whole thing.
So, I'll get back to all of you as soon as I find out what the problem was.
Thanks for all the advice.
Floyd.

 

[jhenderson]

No reason to feel stupid. You acted on advice given to you by people who supposedly knew more than you. Get it checked by someone you trust. If it doesn't start hard, or idle rough, a little white smoke could simply be condensation coming from the cat on start up.

 

[mwilson]

No reason to feel stupid. You acted on advice given to you by people who supposedly knew more than you. Get it checked by someone you trust. If it doesn't start hard, or idle rough, a little white smoke could simply be condensation coming from the cat on start up.

X2. No reason to feel stupid at all.

Mike.

 

[cerberusiam]

The overhead dropping was likely from the battery going dead, electrical stuff has weird occurences.

The white puff is probably and injector seat worn and not completely sealing. If it doesn't happen every time you start the truck it is not serious yet. More than likely you have some wear in the injectors and it is due for a new ones to be safe.

Hopefully the dealer will be able to help but keep inmind they have their own agenda. Do NOT get the injectors from the dealer, their typical remans are some of the worst around and horrendously overpriced.

 

[Killgore]

Floyd, many of us on TDR are here because we have been at the mercy of "the wind and the waves". Only through in-depth study, the advice of some very knowledgeable folks like Cerb, Joe, Mike Wilson, AH64ID, etc. and sometimes unpleasant experiences have we learned to avoid the common pitfalls, and yet we sometimes still manage to fall into the muck. Good luck on resolving your issues. Please keep us informed on how all this turns out.
- Ed

 

[MLee]

Number ONE & TWO reasons for keeping in touch with the TDR. So much help and advise one can not go wrong. Just ask your Question.

 

[Bob V]

The first thing you should do is go out and check your oil. Is it over full? If so how much? One of the signs of a leaking injector is fuel dilution in the oil. If its no over full and it runs good you should be ok to drive. But finding a competent shop to check it out should still be in your plans. I would only go with NEW injectors. Source automotive in Oregon is where I would recommend to get them either stock or there Big Bang, but there are lots of places to buy. I would also recommend replacing the tubes for the above reasons, and that they do have an "edge filter" in them that can not be serviced. Cummins has updated them so if just one is bad you should replace the whole set. You might also check into a Cummins shop to look at the truck, might be a little less money then the dealer and you would have a better chance to have a tech that knows diesels. Some dealerships do not have good Diesel techs.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Cerberusiam- You really opened my eyes on the connector tubes. I havnt had any problems with any of the pickups that I have done injectors on but, the points you bring up make total sense. Im gonna throw in a new set in my pickup just for piece of mind. Looks like all common rails(5.9/6.7) use the same tubes now.

What are the sources beside bbi for new injectors. I have a source for bosch remans and have only had one injector bad ( coil went bad) over 3 years of using them.