24valve Performance Options

[Floor It]

I agree MoparToYOU, if the service MGR thinks that's what caused it, then your screwed! I also can't figure why he would take it to the dealer with it on. Thats just asking for it!

 

[NJohnson]

WOWZY... Glad you paid attention in math class are you? Maybe you should have paid closer attention in auto shop. Do you have any idea how a diesel engine works? Do you have any idea what it's intended for? You boast about "dusting" Banks equipped trucks with nothing more than your $500 box. Well, while you're beaming about all that money you saved here's a thought... . Why bother even spending $500? You can over fuel your engine for much less than that. The companies out there selling crude electronic devices as stand alone products are a dime a dozen. Many of us bought our trucks to tow with. In case you were unclear, that IS what they're intended for. I didn't buy this truck or the Banks system to race other diesels. When I want to "dust" somebody my Viper works just fine.

p. s.
remember that scene in Star Wars where Darth Maul gets chopped in half? I really enjoyed that.

Naiven

 

[TxDieselKid]

Ding ding ding, fighters goto your corners!!

My heavenly days! I can't belive what I have read! Which one of yall use to own a Ford Powerstroke?



Could it be that the red truck that was in the shop have gotten the computer fried by trying to drive it like a submarine, and water hit the point where the PMax3 taps the wire because of a bad connection?



Race or Tow? WHO CARES?!?!?! Just have some darn fun!!! That's what these toys(trucks), and yes they are toys even if you tow, are for.



AJB

 

[MikeR]

Naiven,



You better put your money where your mouth is. You stated boxes are crude and a dime a dozen,and that you can build your own for much less than $500 bucks. Prove it!

Well sir,if you can build such a crude box,then why did you spend almost $2grand for a Banks system? And in case you didn't know... all the power that your Banks kit makes comes from the Banks Ottomind... which is bygolly,a crude fueling box that attaches to the pump wires,just like the rest.



Now,I'm not here to tell people which performance parts to buy... I never do. I respect peoples decisions and I don't make fun of them. Buy whichever kit you feel most comfortable with installing. But it makes me mad when someone talks down DIY kits when they don't realize how their own kits work.



-Mike

 

[DarrellB]

"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG"



Just a thought



Dig D

 

[John]

The Best Of Both Worlds?

I believe I have achieved a well balanced approach to my quest for usable horsepower... I have both Banks products (4" dia. exhaust system, 14 cm2 turbine housing/Big Head wastegate actuator, High-Ram intake manifold) as well as DD Stage 3 injectors and a DD TTPM (True Torque Power Module), which make quite a bit more horsepower than a Banks Ottomind without the VP44 reliability concerns. Sure it cost more however, I also have three SPA gauges, monitoring six different functions and more usable horsepower than almost any other "system" will provide. Additionally, my ported and polished ATS exhaust manifold and ported and polished Banks turbine housing keep things at a respectable level in the EGT department. Although it doesn't possess some of the blistering performance exhibited in some of my friends Rams, I still feel I have achieved a good balance between power, reliability, and complete system longevity.



If I had wanted to build a bad a$$ hot rod I would have started with a rat block and kept going until it hurt!

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by NJohnson

Maybe you should have paid closer attention in auto shop. Do you have any idea how a diesel engine works? Do you have any idea what it's intended for? You boast about "dusting" Banks equipped trucks with nothing more than your $500 box. Well, while you're beaming about all that money you saved here's a thought... . Why bother even spending $500? You can over fuel your engine for much less than that. The companies out there selling crude electronic devices as stand alone products are a dime a dozen. Many of us bought our trucks to tow with. In case you were unclear, that IS what they're intended for.

Sorry but the "big three" of the "major" fueling boxes are not crude electronic devices, that statement is far from truthful. As Mike mentioned above exactly what do you think the OttoMind is in your Banks system??? Do you know who made the early OttoMinds?? One of your so called "crude" box makers manufactured the first Ottominds for Banks (TST). Do you know how your own "system" works? Before you ask, Yes I know how a diesel engine works (only got a lil associates degree in Diesel Technology so far, and 2 years experence with CAT), and its "intended" use is however I (or any owner) sees fit, I don't haul or tow anything at all nor do I intend to, but I know the advantages of gas vs diesel, hence I own a diesel. You might be surprised at how many just "drive" these trucks and don't tow. The fact that they can be "hotrodded" is different and unique, you see these trucks you don't "expect" them to be fast, then surpise, surprise (best Gomer imitation). So it seems you are misinformed on a few matters is all. You use your truck how you want, and everyone else will use theirs as they please and everyones happy.

 

[CGoyette]

WOW the flames are hot.



Crude is not what I would call any of the BOX's of the Big three. Any box that adjust timing while adding fuel after a predetermined amount of pressurized air (boost) is rather remarkable. The edge products do this real cheap $500 add a 4inch exhaust $500 some gauges $400 Done. BANKS 2500 installed wow…nice exhaust system though.





Now how does a diesel work? (22+ years building them and running maintenance facilities) and the TDR educates me every day! Can’t wait to retire! SO I can read the TDR all day a see these kind of flames! Anyone bring hotdogs? Seriously Banks is fine if you like it and so is edge/tst ect…. ITS CALLED CHOICE! Enjoy it---it ain’t free.

Semper Fidelis,

Curt

 

[Sky]

You know what i really like. Its that I have a choice to use my vehicles how ever I want. If I want to pay 35k for a diesel truck and use it for drag raceing I can, If want to by a 85k viper and use it to tow guess what... ... ... ... I can do that too if i choose. I can buy what ever vehicle I want and use it for what I want. Damn we live in a great country dont we?

 

[WOWZY]

I couldn't have said it better myself!Thanks Kat and others!



GOMER SD's HeeHee



Naive, I see that you're still PO'd about your purchase. Your insults toward Darth Maul have no affect on me. It still doesn't cover up the fact that you payed too much for your HP. I wouldn't brag about that Viper too much as HVAC would probably have you looking at his tailgate at the end of the 1/4 mile.



MDonat, The warranty issues with Banks will probably be debated till the end of time. Some have experienced good customer service with Banks and others have not like with most big companies. I haven't seen or heard of Banks defending their customers on a warranty issue.

However I think that most everyone that deals with the so called "Backyard" companies get extremely good customer service that you wouldn't expect or get from the big companies. Also the smaller companies let you know upfront that these goodies can void your warranty. That part I like because if there is a warranty problem because of the dealership knowing/finding out I had a Non-approved box on my truck, I'm prepared to pay the consequences rather than bear warranty rejection shock because of some claim that the big companies make on how their products won't void your warranty.



The choice is yours and yours only and the previous is my opinion only by my reading past posts and experiences.

 

[Mr. Brewski]

Calm down everybody..... lets flame phords and chebbys and not flame each other... I dont have an diesel degree but I do have an Electronics Engineering degree... and I'd have to assume that most all of the "crude" boxes and the not-so-crude boxes still have more computing power than the desktop PC's of yesteryear.



As for my vote... . Let your pocket book decide. HP/Torque=$$



My expenditures to date



Westach Gauges: $200 (Pyro/Boost)

VanAaken CPC: $650 (I know... I paid WAY to much)

4" Exhaust: $750 (Again way to much but I hate to do exhaust work)

K&N: $70



Total: $1670 - and I can out pull a powerwheeze and a Vortech 454 - and my egts post turbo stay below 900.



If you can afford Banks stuff and will be happy with it, by all means do so. I had a Sidewinder turbo kit on a 6. 2 K5 Blazer - hp went from 165 to 210 or so. I paid $2000 for it - for 45hp. Now that kit was quite involved - and it needed a turbo anyways (It really needed a B5. 9!). The EGT's on the blazer could exceed 1150 if I wanted, and I could never get anymore than 8-10# boost. It wasnt a bad kit, it was the only kit besides ATS.



I'll probably end up with 275hp injectors and a Southbend clutch before I'm done..... well maybe a boost module and elbow too... . and... . BOMB ON!

 

[brucew]

fueling boxes

i am enjoying all this passion being released. i cant speak to the techinal side of this issue so i will just listen and observe. since ive been riding a harley for 30 years and driving a ctd for 2 ill defer to those more experienced. does remind me of our harley get togethers when we discuss carbs vs. fuel injection. also the different motor designs likeanhead, shoverhead, blockhead and fathead and for you real oldtimers knuckleheads. hey, keep it up and i will become better able to ask the correct questions when i engage in the bombing efforts. seems the ctd's cant be left stock any more than our harleys. love it and thanks

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

IMO, you can't go wrong with any of the performance upgrade options out there. They will almost all give you what they claim they will. The exceptions to that IMO are the claims by some of the vendors (Banks and Dr. Performance come to mind directly) that using their products will not void any part of your warranty. Here's a couple of posts where there were extended warranty discussion: Banks and Dr.Performance. Another major exception is Dr. Performance's claim that they do not add fuel or air or raise your EGT's. That's a physical impossibility - it's called a perpetual motion machine. Dr. P does add power to your truck but they will also raise the EGT's. Was talking to a vendor just this weekend that had a guy with one of Dr. P's kits on his truck and he asked the guy what his EGT's were - he said he didn't know because he didn't need gauges. After discussing it with him for a while the guy bought a set of gauges off of him. After he installed them he told the vendor something was screwed up with his EGT gauge because it was pegging at 1500 degrees ! They went out and popped the hood on his truck and after seeing the exhaust manifold told him he's been running that hot for a long time - nothing wrong with the gauge!



I've had a major fueling box on my truck for 65,000 miles now (TST Powermax - have had several different programs on it) and this last weekend at Scheids TST had their engine simulator and an oscope there. In talking with Mark about how it works, the limits, what you can change, etc I decided to have mine programmed with a custom program (noone else has the same program that's in my box now). I love how my truck is running now (loved it before too, but more now)! I also added his EGT and boost gauge module to the box so it has automatic defueling that I can set. It was awesome towing my trailer home and having the EGT limit set at 1200 degrees. I was able to run on level 7 and get the immediate rush of power for passing, etc - but on a long pull it would automatically defuel to stay at 1200 degrees.



Now having said that, now that I understand much better how the major fueling boxes work IMO there isn't much if any difference between the current major fueling boxes. As long as they plug into the MAP sensor and the fuel box wire (some early boxes didn't plug into the MAP sensor) then they COULD all be the same if they put the same parameters into them. They can set an overfueling amount based on RPM and boost (max of 50% on the Powermax3 street version and 90% on the Powermax3 comp version), they can adjust the curve of that addition so it hits harder on the bottom end or the top end, they can also set a max solenoid duty cycle (when the solenoid is open fuel is flowing to a cylinder - the same solenoid send fuel to all the cylinders in a VP44 so the absolute max you could have is 99. 9% duty cycle because it needs to close to move onto the next cylinder). The higher you go on that duty cycle the hotter the solenoid will get (and possibly melt) and more length of the slot in the rotor will be used. What you have to decide is how high you want to go. The hotter the box the more heat you are putting into that solenoid. What I'm trying to say here is all the boxes work on the same principles, it's what program is put into the box. My recommendation would be to go with the manufacturer that's closest to you or that you feel comfortable with their customer service. In my case TST is about a 6 hour drive and they've bent over backwards to make me happy. They do make it VERY clear to you that you are taking a chance with your warranty. For an interesting take on why the VP44's fail check out this paper written by Chip of Blue Chip Diesel: VP44 pump failures explained.

 

[Extreme1]

Fueling box Whats that?





(I do wish I had a six speed though... )

 

[merryman]

Steve ( and abunch of other guys who I would like to list, but could not remember all if I tried, so I will address this to a bunch of you through Steve)

I would like to thank you and all the other contributors to this board who either through training or just hard work, have contributed a very great deal to all of us in helping us to understand and get the best from our trucks.

It would not be the same without all your great contributions.



THANK YOU!!!



Vaughn

 

[Bigsaint]

Good post, Steve !!!!



Scott W.

 

[BigUgly]

Dang Steve, that sounds kinda cool there! I like that the box can do all that, *****in! If I already didn't have my PE/DDTTPM combo... ..... But I digress!

Anywho, on the subject of having to go diffrent places and having to mix and match parts, one thing sprung to mind, Diesel Dynamics!

If'n I'm remembering correctally (not always a sure bet!) you can get various stages of injectors from DD, a "minor" fueling box, a 4" exhaust, an air intake system (psycotty) and even some gauges and turbo housings if you think you need them! Also, DD has Clutches and auto transmission stuff there all in one place! And even a goober like me could install all of those, with the exception of the transmission mods, and if ya wanted to weld the exhaust..... But, still! I haven't worked up a price for all of these goodies from DD, but I'm bettin it's cheaper than the Doc and proble Banks too, and ya get way more power. All in one shipment from the UPS man too!

Josiah

PS. I have purchased from DD because I liked the abaility to run the DDTTPM with "just timing", off course, now I run it on the most aggressive setting : .