Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) +250 Degree Engine Coolant, Electric Fan?

[MMcCallie]

Though i know the Flex-A-Lite electric fan kit for diesels cannot move but about half the air a mechanical fan can, i've been finding my clutch fan totally insufficient when 4 wheeling in the mountains. When rock crawling in low range, turning very low RPMs, i cannot even tell from inside if the fan is locked up by ear. I have a small electric fan that does very little, but just enough to be worth having. I can tell it is on by all of the dust blowing from underneath.



When last trail riding around Estes Park, it was 100 degrees that day. My engine coolant was climbing over 250 degrees. I had the a/c on, and when i would turn it off, the coolant would drop back down to 210-220 within a few minutes. The coolant temp wouldn't drop below 210 until i either stopped and shut the engine down for a few minutes, or got on the highway again with airflow cooling things down.



During normal cruising the coolant sits around 180-195. In stop and go traffic it will get up to 210 and the a/c doesn't blow cold anymore. I drive a lot of stop and go. On the road i can usually hear the fan locking or letting go but not when 4 wheeling under 6 mph.



Since i drive an extremely heavy truck regularly in the mountains in 100 degree weather, i want to make sure i won't overheat running the electric fans. I rarely tow, though it is usually around 10,000 lbs. I'd be using kit #278 in addition to the 18" Be Cool i have in front of the intercooler.



My transmission temperature also gets out of hand. On the interstate it may be as low as 146 in 80 degree weather when the torque converter stays locked. However, in stop and go traffic it gets over 200 degrees and there's nothing i can do about it then. Same thing happens off road, though i often lock the torque converter in 1st gear when crawling in low range.



Will the Flex-A-Lite #278 make a huge difference for my engine coolant, transmission fluid, and a/c when there is no other airflow? I don't want to burn up my compressor so i usually turn it off when the coolant climbs above 210. I don't like having to always leave the windows down off road because that makes for an awful lot of dirt to have to clean on the inside of this beast. Has anyone noticed a great improvement in cooling with electric fans when barely moving?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[JFaughn]

I haven't put one in my sig. truck yet , but I've been using in many , I am going to take one out of a retired bus , to put in my truck , I have not had the eng. get as hot as yours , but the trans does get hotter than I would like , so thats why I'm adding the electric fan .

 

[Bob4x4]

Though i know the Flex-A-Lite electric fan kit for diesels cannot move but about half the air a mechanical fan can, i've been finding my clutch fan totally insufficient when 4 wheeling in the mountains. When rock crawling in low range, turning very low RPMs, i cannot even tell from inside if the fan is locked up by ear. I have a small electric fan that does very little, but just enough to be worth having. I can tell it is on by all of the dust blowing from underneath.



When last trail riding around Estes Park, it was 100 degrees that day. My engine coolant was climbing over 250 degrees. I had the a/c on, and when i would turn it off, the coolant would drop back down to 210-220 within a few minutes. The coolant temp wouldn't drop below 210 until i either stopped and shut the engine down for a few minutes, or got on the highway again with airflow cooling things down.



During normal cruising the coolant sits around 180-195. In stop and go traffic it will get up to 210 and the a/c doesn't blow cold anymore. I drive a lot of stop and go. On the road i can usually hear the fan locking or letting go but not when 4 wheeling under 6 mph.



Since i drive an extremely heavy truck regularly in the mountains in 100 degree weather, i want to make sure i won't overheat running the electric fans. I rarely tow, though it is usually around 10,000 lbs. I'd be using kit #278 in addition to the 18" Be Cool i have in front of the intercooler.



My transmission temperature also gets out of hand. On the interstate it may be as low as 146 in 80 degree weather when the torque converter stays locked. However, in stop and go traffic it gets over 200 degrees and there's nothing i can do about it then. Same thing happens off road, though i often lock the torque converter in 1st gear when crawling in low range.



Will the Flex-A-Lite #278 make a huge difference for my engine coolant, transmission fluid, and a/c when there is no other airflow? I don't want to burn up my compressor so i usually turn it off when the coolant climbs above 210. I don't like having to always leave the windows down off road because that makes for an awful lot of dirt to have to clean on the inside of this beast. Has anyone noticed a great improvement in cooling with electric fans when barely moving?

Thanks,

Matt

You may want to some checking on your cooling system first,12 valves do not run warm normally. mine never climbs above 190 even towing with 35s and 3. 54 gears



Bob

 

[wcjp]

The 12V will oil mist the radiator which then attracts dirt. The end result is lack of cooling under a load. Pull the radiator for thorough cleaning.

 

[MMcCallie]

Temp went hung around 245 for almost 2 hours while wheeling this weekend. It was 100 degrees out again and we were climbing mountains the entire time, all uphill. It wasn't until we were coming down hill again and the sun wasn't baking on us when it rdopped down to 210 again. As it got cooler, it came down to 180 and stayed there all the way down and the next couple hours on the road.

Looks like an electric fan will not fit. There are bugs in the condenser so some likely got through the intercooler and radiator. Everything is thickly covered in dirt, inside and out. Even got dirt through my $25 Auto Zone air filter, which is being replaced immediately. Made the truck gutless and smoke white exhaust. Cleaned the filter and its back to normal.

Knowing what an effect the dirt can have, i guess i will have to pull some parts out for cleaning. I don't have time to do it every weekend after wheeling. Strangely, it always cools down after the climbing and sunny heat are over. Goes back to the usual 180 but really makes me uneasy sitting at 250 for such long times. I tried parking in the shade and upping the idle just a little for about 10 minutes and only dropped to about 230. I'm curious if there is an alternative to having to pull things apart and clean after every run.

 

[fest3er]

I *thought* I read that Flex-a-lite is producing a kit for the '94-'02 Rams:
262 Dodge Cummins Diesel

Jegs has 'em for $550; Summit Racing has 'em for $540.

[On edit: My mistake. I didn't see that it is a Cummins in an Excursion. ]

 

[MMeier]

The 12V will oil mist the radiator which then attracts dirt. The end result is lack of cooling under a load. Pull the radiator for thorough cleaning.

How does it do that? None of my 12v'ers never did.

 

[MMeier]

Temp went hung around 245 for almost 2 hours while wheeling this weekend. It was 100 degrees out again and we were climbing mountains the entire time, all uphill. It wasn't until we were coming down hill again and the sun wasn't baking on us when it rdopped down to 210 again. As it got cooler, it came down to 180 and stayed there all the way down and the next couple hours on the road.



Looks like an electric fan will not fit. There are bugs in the condenser so some likely got through the intercooler and radiator. Everything is thickly covered in dirt, inside and out. Even got dirt through my $25 Auto Zone air filter, which is being replaced immediately. Made the truck gutless and smoke white exhaust. Cleaned the filter and its back to normal.



Knowing what an effect the dirt can have, i guess i will have to pull some parts out for cleaning. I don't have time to do it every weekend after wheeling. Strangely, it always cools down after the climbing and sunny heat are over. Goes back to the usual 180 but really makes me uneasy sitting at 250 for such long times. I tried parking in the shade and upping the idle just a little for about 10 minutes and only dropped to about 230. I'm curious if there is an alternative to having to pull things apart and clean after every run.

Are you running the stock style fan and clutch, for the Cummins, or did I miss something here?

 

[Hammer]

Though i know the Flex-A-Lite electric fan kit for diesels cannot move but about half the air a mechanical fan can

To what do you use to base this off of,because there are no hard numbers on what a stock fan flows when its locked up?. I have done the Flex-A-Lite fan install on my 12v and know so far it cools when its needed and if you need it on earlier it has the ability to be wired to run(over ride the VSC) at 100% with the meare flip of a toggle switch. They also have a way to wire in a cut off power for you off roaders when doing water crossings so you do not short out the fans or your electrical system.



They move a ton of air when at 100% and I do not feel there is a lot of difference from the stock clutch fan. I am,as Mark did,going to question you on how your 12v oil mists the radiator also. IF yours is doing this you have bigger issues than just overheating as the 24v's are the ones which oil mist the radiators due to their puke bottle at the front. 12v's are hard to get hot,not saying they don't get warm,but their tendency is not run hot like the newer computer scooter engines.



If you can not cool that motor with the new Flex-A-Lite setup when your four wheeling I would be very surprised with what I have seen from mine so far. As for towing heavy,they do not recommend it and I don't worry about it as all I tow is my small frame around and a occasional box in the bed.



Neal...

Duuuhhhh...

Where you been lately that you didn't know they made any direct fit replacement fans for second gens?. Here is the link to the thread I have going over in the products/accessories area and there are shots of the install in there in a album with a link..... Andy



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...sion/184940-flex-lite-262-fans-installed.html

 

[MMeier]

Someone else was saying about the oil mist, not the original poster, still like to see where they got that info from. Wonder if one of those 2nd gen kits could be modified a tad to work on a 3rd gen rig?

 

[MMcCallie]

Well, the electric fan kit won't fit anyway. It needs 4. 5" and i only have about 3". Yes, i am running the stock fan with a new clutch. It does lock, there's no mistaking it.

I had an oil leak from the crank cover but that has been taken care of. My a/c condenser has some bugs in it and all of the dirt may indeed be clogging and causing problems. However, during normal driving, like today, the temp is usually just 180.

It only goes over 210 when it is 100 degrees out, basting in the sun for hours, crawling barely as fast as 5 mph, with no airflow other than a small electric pusher fan, and at around 7,000-10,000' elevation in the mountains.

I've noticed major differences on the turbo from the altitude, that the exhaust has an almost constant haze where the air is so thin. A/c still doesn't blow as strong or as cold when stopped or in heavy traffic though. It really needs airflow and will drive the coolant temp up in a hurry.

I met a guy tonight who showed me an intercooler kit that sprays a coolant, compressed air or something to drop EGTs. I may rig something to cool my radiator. It mists from the outside. Perhaps i'll get an electric air compressor that will blow on it to cool it down. Could use something on the transmission as well. I have a huge bumper that blocks a lot of flow, but does so mostly on the lower section only.

Is there a factory fitting option that will cool more powerfully than stock? Flex-A-Lite told me about a year ago that the stock fan will move about 12,000cfm. I read on this forum that someone else had been told the cfm is over 10,000. This is obviously turning at least 2,000RPMs with the clutch locked. If their kit would fit my Cummins Excursion, i would use it.

 

[wcjp]

I'm not sure how you want me to prove the oil misting. I've seen it on many 12V's and 24V's at local Bomb parties. Most have never taken their radiator to the extreme as the original poster. You're more than welcome to spend large amounts of money putting a bandaid on the situation. Pulling the radiator to remove built up oil would be the easiest. This Cummins is in an Excursion. What kind of radiator? What size tires? Gearing? AC? transmission ( and mods)? How much gear onboard? Outside temp (already know 100deg)? Average mph? Every step adds heat. It may be time to upgrade the radiator to an expensive custom setup.



It was asked then answered concerning Flex-a-Lite. The electric fan company doesn't recommend them for heavy towing. According to this post the vehicle is not used for heavy highway towing. It's used for offroad. It might make sense in this case. The electric fans can move 100% of their available output while at idle. The stock fan clutch wasn't designed for that.

 

[MMeier]

How about the shroud? Does the fan sit correctly there... 1/2 in, 1/2 out IIRC

 

[MMcCallie]

I've been advised that my old Powerstroke shroud was way too big, covering inches past the fan and that because of this, the fan would have been less efficient. I only have a section covering the top of the fan. The rest is open around it.

The engine is very close to the radiator, there is little room for a shroud. I've been told it probably wouldn't help to have a shroud. Does anyone have experience running with and without their fan shroud?

Yes, the truck has a/c, average speed under 5 mph, a built automatic transmission, 35x13" tires, 3. 73 gears, the massively overbuilt Powerstroke radiator, and the truck is built very heavy, guessing around 10,000 lbs.

I'm thinking i need to pull the radiator for a cleaning, flush the system, and go with perhaps a higher content of coolant vs water. Perhaps i'll try Evans or Amsoil coolant to see if the coolant type can help maintain the temperature.

I do expect some oil on the fins from my previous leak. It is surprising to me that it gets so hot in the mountains since street cruising runs so perfectly at 180. Altitude really makes it harder to breath, such thin air, loots more smoke and way higher EGTs. I need to find some solution.

When rock crawling, the truck doesn't go fast enough to get over 500 EGTs or ever build even 1 psi boost. I usually crawl in 1st gear with the torque converter locked trying to keep the transmission under 200 degrees. I'm thinking when i wheel this weekend, i'll try to keep my engine speed up more often using my right foot to see if that helps the coolant flow better. Perhaps i need to seek a smaller water pump pully or have this one machined down a little. Any ideas on that?

 

[MMeier]

Looks like, problem found.

 

[fest3er]

... It is surprising to me that it gets so hot in the mountains since street cruising runs so perfectly at 180. Altitude really makes it harder to breath, such thin air, loots more smoke and way higher EGTs. I need to find some solution. ...

Numbers are needed. Have an acquaintence stand by with a laser thermometer. Immediately after a tough climb, have her check the temp across the radiator. If it's hot on on the gazinta side and cool on the gazoutta side, it means you aren't moving enough coolant and even a clutchless fan won't work; you need to move more coolant, maybe via an electric water pump.



If the temp is hot and relatively consistent across the radiator, you need to move more air. You can do this by finding a 160F clutch (which might engage more solidly at 180F-200F), adjusting the bi-metal spring to engage sooner, or BOMBing the spring or clutch so you can manually lock it. A manual lock might be fairly easy to rig.



If the temp is cool-ish and relatively consistent across the radiator, you need to fix the t-stat. This isn't likely because your gauge shows high temp. When I had a worn clutch and bad t-stat, my gauge never read very high, but the internal temp was above 230F.



An exotic solution might be to install another small radiator and use CO2 or liquid nitrogen (the latter being a 'greener' solution) to cool it. You could even do the same on the charge air, which might help reduce EGT.



A less exotic solution might be to build a 'swamp cooler' in front of the radiator/intercooler/condensor and flow water onto/into/through it; evaporation should provide lots of cooling.



But first be sure the heat is getting to where it can be removed.



N

 

[MMcCallie]

I've been looking at cryo2.com for some ideas after i was shown some of their stuff last night. I've been thinking of buying an air compressor that would just blow high pressure air and might help cool a great deal. That way i wouldn't have another tank to refill or run empty at an inopportune time. I also need one to air my tires back up and run air tools anyway.

It was in the mid 70s tonight and i went for a test drive after installing a True Flow XDI. I climbed a hill at just over 100mph, EGTs over 1,500 but engine coolant never went over 180. Earlier in the day when the temp was in the mid 80s i was flogging around town, trying to bring the engine temp up. It only got up to 210 with a/c on both times. On the earlier run my transmission rose to 209, tonight it never got above 171, just 169 during the hard pull.

I hadn't considered an electric water pump. Any brand suggestions? I'm certain my clutch is locking because i can hear it. When i'm rock crawling i just don't make enough RPMs or go fast enough to flow air. Thermostat is a new Cummins unit from Dodge. The only time i really have a serious problem with engine temps is when crawling in the mountains. I'll look for a laser thermometer.

 

[Bart]

MMc, going to a higher concentration of coolant vs water is going the wrong way. Coolant does not help cooling, if anything go to a 40/60 of coolant/water.

I might have missed something, but several people were talking about electric fans in front of their radiators. "IF" they're talking about a Dodge truck, I don't see were a fan would fit in front of the radiator. I'm sure not going to replace my mechanical with an electric.

My off roader ('66 Bronco w/351 W) ran hot off roading. One of the best things I did to cool it down was to stop the air flow that had already gone through the radiator and picked up all the heat it could from going back over the top of the radiator and then back through the radiator again. In other words the air flow just kept making a loop over the top of the radiator and back through again. Luckily for early broncos, they there is aftermarket sheet metal that stops this. "IF" you can visualize the air that has already passed through the radiator being able to go over the top of the radiator and nothing to stop it from going through again then you need to put something in there to stop it. The aftermarket sheet metal for the bronco goes between the grill and the radiator support group. I'll stop talking and see if I can find a link with pictures that may give you an idea for your rig.

Wild Horses The Best 66-77 Early Bronco Parts

Second from the bottom of this page is the air dam I spoke of. There's a fine picture to give you the idea. It dropped my crawling temp by more than 20*

Hello Mark, how's it goin!!

 

[wcjp]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is gearing. He's running 3. 73. Is this the factory gearing? With 35's, 4. 56gears would be a better match if their available for his axles. The engine would work alot less offroad with matched gears. Because of the expense for gears it would be cheaper to make sure everything else is upto par first.

 

[MMcCallie]

Bart, thanks, i'm taken care of on the radiator air circulation. The way the hood fits makes it so air cannot come back. There is also rubber shielding directing air flow straight through the coolers with lining along the sides and above.

As i said before, i can lock the converter in 1st gear and the truck crawls veyr slowly through almost every obstacle. The gearing feels perfect! It has more than ample power to spin the tires. The only difference toward cooling i would see with deeper gears is that my engine would spin faster the whole time. I don't want to affect my highway gearing with lower gears. I put a lot of highway miles on it. Long trips are almost always over 3,000 miles at a time between CO & MO.

Some of the Jeep guys i wheel with cut louvers into their hoods and claim major cooling benefits. I don't want to hack my hood, but i may need to. This would allow the heat (which rises) to escape vertically through the louver vents so it isn't trapped to circulate in the engine compartment. I don't think i need to worry about water on the engine so i may try it. Much cheaper than buying a cowl induction hood.

I'm going camping and wheeling through the weekend so i'll brainstorm and see if there isn't any way to modify my driving on the trails that will keep it cooler. Temps will be in the upper 90s.