2500 vs 3500 SRW

[ntenna]

Spent some time checking out the chassis of both 2500 and 3500 SRW trucks today (LWB). Each had the same front coils (528A, if I remember correctly), the back springs on the 3500 have the two extra helper leaves, so they have a different part #, but to look at them, the five main leaves are identical.



The rear axles, which are supposed to be different, were the same, but then I was looking at a 2500 ETH/DEE and a 3500 ETH/DEE so I guess with the HO engine they both got the bigger 11. 5" ring and pinion?



No rear sway bar on either vehicle? I might have missed it on the 3500. Will have to look again.



In the Dodge web site, the snow plow prep package for '03 does not show any spring changes in the 2500 or the 3500, just the 160 amp alternator, 750 amp batteries (which I thought came with all CTD's) and the skid plate for the TXFR case. Anybody seen one of these packages on an '03 in the real world, and did the spring part #'s change?



And finally, am I right that you no longer get to order the 241HD transfer case?

Or is that standard on the 3500?



Questions, questions



JH

 

[Dean Upson]

I was concerned about the lack of a rear sway bar in the tow package. I was told that with the new hydroformed frame, the sway bars are no longer needed because of the stiffness of the frame.



Dean

 

[ntenna]

Originally posted by Dean Upson

I was concerned about the lack of a rear sway bar in the tow package. I was told that with the new hydroformed frame, the sway bars are no longer needed because of the stiffness of the frame.



Dean

I have trouble buying in to what you were told, Dean. Sounds like typical salesman-speak to me. The frame has much less bearing on body roll in corners than the suspension does..... that is, the roll occurs at the springs far more than the frame. Now the stiffer frame would certainly help minimize twist if you have a slide-in on board, but that's not the same as basic roll in the corners.



Having said that, driving the '03's empty doesn't leave me with the feel that the roll is any worse than the '02's and back WITH the sway bar.











JH

 

[Dean Upson]

JH, I'm inclined to agree with you. I just got the truck, so I may have some surprises but, I sure didn't feel any sway on corners with the DRW. It seems to just about the same as my 98. 5 was with the sway bars. There is a much different trailer hitch on the truck and that no doubt, stiffens the frame as well. This truck rides better than my other one did, but then, I never expected a 3500 DRW to ride like a Lincoln.



Dean

 

[DIESELMAN]

Frame stiffness is irrelevant (almost), its the width from spring pad to spring pad that increases stability.



Imagine putting the springs right against the pumpkin (stupid idea, but you get the point) , very unstable and prone to rolling. The further out from the center the springs are placed, the more stable the rolling axis becomes.



A 6" increase from 54" to 60" in width would increase torque applied against a rolling axis moment by about 450 pounds at 1800 pounds induced roll (. 8G turn at 7200 lbs). That would be like applying 4500 ft. lbs. to a bar having a 900 pound rate wouldn't it? Of course the springs are also longer which reduces the rate somewhat. (I oughta get the tape measure and calculator out and prove that theory now that I've said it )



The 3500 SRW is what was the 2500 with Camper Prep package which you can't get anymore. The ride is very similar to my '01 2500 with the overloads with a 2450 lb. load ( 18 3'X3' 3/8" Galvanized Steel Plates ) in the back. The '03 3500 actually squats more under this load.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Not sure what that all means but I agree with Dieselman.

The truck handles very well around corners, actually better than my 93 with a Helwig (for whats that's worth).

I'm wondering how well it will do with a camper though. I had couple of 200+ pound guys jump into the passenger side of mine and the truck jostled from side to side like an eighteen foot Bayliner!



Scotty

 

[Dean Upson]

I wasn't sure about what all that meant either, but I did get the general idea, Dieselman. Prairie Dog, I had air springs on my 98. 5 3500 Quad and they made a heck of a difference with the trailer and also a couple of friends of mine use them with pick up campers and really love them. You just put a pound of air for every 40 pounds of weight and it sure takes the bounce out. You do have to take most of that air out when riding empty or it's like riding in a lumberwagon.



Dean

 

[DIESELMAN]

Originally posted by Prairie Dog

the truck jostled from side to side like an eighteen foot Bayliner!

I don't know what I said either, but is sure did sound good didn't it?!?

 

[Wiredawg]

At the TDR National convention

Gents:



At the TDR national rally, the Dodge representative told us the new trucks don't have anti-sway bars becuse the suspenssions had been designed so as to not need them. He said this truck had been reingeered from the ground up.



I drove an 03 3500 4X4 DRW QC ETH/DEE at the rally w/out the bar and that truck felt better than my 3-day old 02 3500 with one.



I guess y'all wil be able to tell when you hitch up to a decent load.



Wiredawg

 

[sag2]

The snow plow prep package should have upgraded front springs, but the code guide does not say that it has. It only lists the HD generator, battery, and skid plate.

 

[ntenna]

Originally posted by DIESELMAN





I don't know what I said either, but is sure did sound good didn't it?!?

You betcha!



So either the rear frame is wider, or they really re-worked the springs. I'm going to park my '01. 5 next to a 3500 SRW this week and get more serious about figuring out what they did. And Dean, I agree, the ride seems better as well.



What I am wrestling with, is I pull a 28' car trailer (about 11,000 loaded) so I have a fair amount of tongue weight (equalizing hitch). And I often pack the back of the truck with stuff (OK last trip, 1800 pounds of engines and probably another 500 in parts. So it's either a 2500 with rear air suspension for the big loads (yes, Dean good suggestion and I was considering that), or a 3500 with a stiffer ride empty... . that's the brain-buster.



BTW, sag2, that's why I wondered. Maybe we can find someone who has seen a truck with the plow prep package and can check the tag on the front springs. And the model of the transfer case!



Thanks!



JH

 

[David Muench]

All the trucks come with NV271 or NV273 t-cases, depending if you want manual shift or electric shift respectively. There is no longer a HD version, they just went with a bigger t-case in general.

 

[ntenna]

Originally posted by David Muench

All the trucks come with NV271 or NV273 t-cases, depending if you want manual shift or electric shift respectively. There is no longer a HD version, they just went with a bigger t-case in general.

So Dave, any difference in the 271 and 273 txfr cases other than shift that you know of?



Thanks!



JH

 

[David Muench]

Originally posted by Jheimerl

So Dave, any difference in the 271 and 273 txfr cases other than shift that you know of?

Nope, not that I've seen. . They seem to have the same specs. They're both stronger than the 241HD.

 

[David Muench]

There's a chart at the bottom of this page with the specs:



http://www.newventuregear.com/tcases.html

 

[krabman]

I was going to get the 2500 till I was tipped off to the ride being the same as the 3500. I could discern no difference in ride quality so went with the 3500. You might want to test drive em both to see what you think.

 

[ntenna]

Originally posted by krabman

I was going to get the 2500 till I was tipped off to the ride being the same as the 3500. I could discern no difference in ride quality so went with the 3500. You might want to test drive em both to see what you think.

Did discover that the '03 rear springs are quite a bit longer than the '02's. And the 3500 has two lift plates, 2500 has only one.



JH

 

[nickleinonen]

And the 3500 has two lift plates, 2500 has only one

by that do you mean factory "lift" blocks?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I have read that the 241HD, 271 and 273 all are rated 1400 ft lb input torque, but the chart at the above link shows the 271 and 273 are rated heavier. I also read the 271 does not have a PTO provision but the 273 does have it.



I agree from reading the tech sales manual and looking at the 2500 and SRW 3500 that they seem the same except for the helper springs. Empty they should ride the same. When the 3500 is loaded enough to bring the helper springs into play, it would ride stiffer but at that point the stiffer springing would probably be OK. My chief complaint with helper springs comes when you are lightly loaded and on every bump you cause the helpers to slap their stops. The fix for that is to load either lighter or heavier, if possible.

 

[Dean Upson]

Nick,



They are plates on the new models, not the huge blocks on the older trucks.



Dean