i have a paid for 02 2500 4x4 extended cab. i am considering trading for an 07 3500 srw. quad cab. it would be too dificult if not impossible to back in a drw in the side of oour oplace. with our 33' alfa trailer at my skill level anyway. all the sales people say the only difference for 2500 a nd 3500 is the heavier rear springs. the newer trucks have better transmissions,more powerful engines. and better brakes? is the new truck worth the $25000 vs $3-$4000 in upgrades to mine?
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2500 vs 3500
- Thread starter dougp6
- Start Date
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dougp6 said:
A couple of thoughts about what your have said.
First... There is a significant difference in rear axle load capacity with the 3500 dually, versus the 3500 SRW or the 2500. You will also have more capacity due to four tires on the rear axle versus two. The SRW 3500 only gets you a few hundred pounds of increased load over the 2500. If you are going to be towing a 33' alfa, you may need more capacity. If you don't care about being overloaded, then just keep your 02 2500 and get it "chipped" for a little more power.
Second... I don't see much difference backing up a 2500 over a 3500 dually. Remember, with the tow mirrors out (in the tow position) if you clear the mirrors, you will clear the dually tubs. Now... If you talking about parking at the local Wal-Mart, you will see some difference between the 2500 and the dually.
Third... You will notice increased stability while towing a heavy trailer with a dually over a SRW.
JMHO...
Welcome to the TDR doug!
If you are towing and round a curve at 50 mph and a rear tire blows out you could jack-knife. 3500's are way more stable towing heavy trailers in the curves.
The only problem I have with my 3500 is I can't reach into the bed because of the fenders getting in the way and I'm 6'3".
Backing will become 2nd nature. Remember move the bottom of the steering wheel in the direction you want the trailer to go.
If you are towing and round a curve at 50 mph and a rear tire blows out you could jack-knife. 3500's are way more stable towing heavy trailers in the curves.
The only problem I have with my 3500 is I can't reach into the bed because of the fenders getting in the way and I'm 6'3".
Backing will become 2nd nature. Remember move the bottom of the steering wheel in the direction you want the trailer to go.
I sold the dually and bought a 3500 SRW. I tow a large Titanium RV with no problems. I don't miss the dually at all. Only thing I did to the new truck was add larger overload spring purch bussings to keep allow the overload springs to come in contact earler which keeps the truck level with the titanium hooked up. I don't know what the pin weight of your 5er is so I can't help there.
Plus no matter how much money you dump into the 02 it will never sound like an 06! I know, the diesel heads out here say the 02 and older sound like a "real diesel". As I get older I am starting to appricate being able to hear my wife and kid talking to me on those long hauls with the RV! with the 02 I used to have to shut if off so the drive through place could hear the guy in front of me! The 06 don't bother them at all.
And I have thought about "if one rear tires blows your in trouble" but I don't let it bother me. First I always have good tires on the truck, and they are not over loaded so unless I hit something, it ain't going to blow out.
Plus no matter how much money you dump into the 02 it will never sound like an 06! I know, the diesel heads out here say the 02 and older sound like a "real diesel". As I get older I am starting to appricate being able to hear my wife and kid talking to me on those long hauls with the RV! with the 02 I used to have to shut if off so the drive through place could hear the guy in front of me! The 06 don't bother them at all.
And I have thought about "if one rear tires blows your in trouble" but I don't let it bother me. First I always have good tires on the truck, and they are not over loaded so unless I hit something, it ain't going to blow out.
Skydiver said:
IF the right front and right rear tires both blow as you are rounding a left hand curve at 50 MPH, and IF you are driving on ice, and IF there is a steep bank, and IF there are a bunch of big oak trees, and IF an engine off a DC-10 falls on you, and IF your fuel tank is hit by an IED, and IF... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .....
You may just be better off parking your truck and cowering in your bedroom at home!
AMink
TDR MEMBER
It will also depend on what configuration of truck you're looking at. Is it a Mega, Quad, Regular? I got the SRW 3500 in Mega. I don't tow terribly heavy, but I did want all the weight carrying capacity I could get, just in case. Couldn't justify the DRW, and am not sold on the fenders that go on the Mega. Also, are you going to keep the 5er you have now? Or maybe step up in a few years to something bigger/heavier? Dually might be for you. Or not. Or maybe. Don't you love decisions? 
dougp6, welcome to TDR. You just hit a hornet's nest by throwing out DRW vs. SRW. This should be fun!
As far as upgrading to a new 3500, I'd say that is a good idea. My last truck was a 01 2500 QC 4x4, I traded it in on the 03 in my sig. There is no comparison in the way the two handle the towing duties - the 03 is hands down a better set up for my use.
Back to the DRW vs. SRW argument. I would say that an 07 3500 SRW would pull your trailer beautifully. DRW would probably be better for when you are towing, but I have no complaints about the way my SRW handles my load.
As far as upgrading to a new 3500, I'd say that is a good idea. My last truck was a 01 2500 QC 4x4, I traded it in on the 03 in my sig. There is no comparison in the way the two handle the towing duties - the 03 is hands down a better set up for my use.
Back to the DRW vs. SRW argument. I would say that an 07 3500 SRW would pull your trailer beautifully. DRW would probably be better for when you are towing, but I have no complaints about the way my SRW handles my load.
Jumbo Jet said:
Ditto! I couldn't have said it better myself. Also what if you are 3# over GVW and get sued for a million bucks because you were in an accident...
If you own a newer 5th wheel, over 30', and it has a bedroom (front) slideout, you will most likely be overloading the rated rear axle capacity in a 2500 and be very close, if not over, in a 3500 SRW. The main reason for this is that you are limited by the tire capacity. If you don't believe this, take a look at your load range E tires and see what the capacity of the tire is. If it is like most E tires it is rated for 3000-3200 lbs max on each tire.
The "actual" king pin weight on my 31. 5 HitchHiker II is about 2800. Add that to your "actual" rear axle weight plus any extra gear, people, extra fuel, etc. and you will see that you quickly approach or exceed your tire rating.
The bottom line is this... If you don't know, or care about what the actual weight of your load is, then press on and be happy... 999 out of 1000 you will probably get to where you are going, if you have excellent tires and you don't have bad luck...
The "actual" king pin weight on my 31. 5 HitchHiker II is about 2800. Add that to your "actual" rear axle weight plus any extra gear, people, extra fuel, etc. and you will see that you quickly approach or exceed your tire rating.
The bottom line is this... If you don't know, or care about what the actual weight of your load is, then press on and be happy... 999 out of 1000 you will probably get to where you are going, if you have excellent tires and you don't have bad luck...
Load capactiy of tires can be fixed, the axle can actually handle the weight, the brakes can be enhanced and upgraded, engine can be "chipped" for more power etc... The one thing most people never consider is that legally you will be overloaded. If you don't care about that and have more money than Bill Gates and a ruthless lawyer, then by all means keep the '02 and upgrade it.
Speaking for myself only, I would never put myself in that liability situation. If it were me, I would sell the '02 and buy a used pre '07, post '03 Dodge dually. Just my opinion.
BTW, welcome to the TDR.
Speaking for myself only, I would never put myself in that liability situation. If it were me, I would sell the '02 and buy a used pre '07, post '03 Dodge dually. Just my opinion.
BTW, welcome to the TDR.
Mberry, "Legal" overloading means what? The DOT inspection stations do not look at manufacturers GVW. They weigh the axles to ensure that you do not exceed the ratings of the tires and axles. If you are within limits you are OK. How do you think all the hotshot haulers get away with exceeding the published GVW from the manufacturer? They actually license their trucks for the heavier loads. Check the Gross Weight Rating on most trailers. It's the max capacity of the tires and axles. If you add the max capacity of your truck tires and axles its way over the GVW on your door tag. They build in a big safety factor because a lot of people tend to overload their trucks. The only way you are "legally" overloaded is if your tires or axles are actually loaded over their rated capacity. This is an ageless TDR argument and just goes on and on...
dougp6 said:
Dougp6,
Several posts ignored the fact that you do not want a DRW. From what I have read on many posts (including truck camper forums- these RV's can REALLY overload rear axles/tires), rear axle ratings are based on tire max ratings. This can be remedied by tires that have a higher weight rating, or even going to 19. 5 rims and tires- the additional benefit is that these tires may outlast 2 or more sets of OEM size donuts. Nowhere near the capacity of DRW, but greater weight carrying capacity tires/rims than what a 1T SRW comes with. Search for "Rickson"
Good luck,
John
Regardless of my earlier post - BE SAFE.
If you check my Signature - I have added those items that make towing safer.
Kingpin weight on my fifth wheel is slightly over 1,800 lbs. When I throw in the 280 lb. generator, and a couple other items, I am easily getting to 2400-2500 lbs.
Empty truck rear axle weight is 2,840 lbs. At about 5200-5400 lbs. I would still have a safety margin with a Load Range E tire. With my Load Range G tires - I feel very comfortable. The airbags allow me to remain level, and the Rancho shocks set on position 9 help eliminate rebound from uneven surfaces.
If you check my Signature - I have added those items that make towing safer.
Kingpin weight on my fifth wheel is slightly over 1,800 lbs. When I throw in the 280 lb. generator, and a couple other items, I am easily getting to 2400-2500 lbs.
Empty truck rear axle weight is 2,840 lbs. At about 5200-5400 lbs. I would still have a safety margin with a Load Range E tire. With my Load Range G tires - I feel very comfortable. The airbags allow me to remain level, and the Rancho shocks set on position 9 help eliminate rebound from uneven surfaces.
Jumbo Jet said:
Are these "actual" weight scale weights or what the manufacturer says they weigh?
As an example... My 3500 4X4 QC LB SLT is totally stock except for an a larger fuel tank, bed liner, roll top, running boards, and hitch. With two on board, full fuel (57gal) and the above options my truck weighs in at just over 8000lbs (across an actual scale). I'm pretty sure your setup will weigh in at well over 7000lbs.
You can mitigate the tire issue by going to a "G" tire, and you can mitigate it by going to a Rickson setup, but I don't believe this is the actual point of this discussion.
It's a hot issue because those of us that looked at the data and decided to get the duallys don't want to use all the excuses for ignoring being overloaded. Those that bought a 2500 or 3500 SRW want to feel that they also have made a good choice. Some mitigate the overloading with better tires (airbags don't solve the stock tire issue) and such, or just don't want to face the fact that they are overloaded. That's their choice and I really don't care, as long as I'm not following them down the freeway... :-laf
When I purchased my trailer I was very tempted to buy a 5th wheel. However the latter's pin weight would have exceeded my GVWR on my 2500. That said I would imagine that "technically" many of the truck/trailer/5th wheel combinations on the road today exceed the weight ratings of the manufacturer.
"Chicken that I am"... I decided to stay within the parameters of my vehicle. With my luck, or LACK THEREOF, I probably would get into an accident and the Insurance Company would deny my claim. Wasn't willing to take that risk.
"Chicken that I am"... I decided to stay within the parameters of my vehicle. With my luck, or LACK THEREOF, I probably would get into an accident and the Insurance Company would deny my claim. Wasn't willing to take that risk.
2500vs 3500
thanks for all the quick responses from u people. . i reallly appreciate it it is obvious that a dually would be more stable and safer than srw,, four wheels instead of two..... some of u mentioned liabiluity issues ,,, that is exactly what started my quest
part of my problem is i dont understnd the physical difference between an 06 2500 and an 06 3500. when i started this search a salesman said the only difference is the over load sprilngs and MAYBE one in the regular leaf stack. EVERYTHING else is the same, ie brakes, differentiial size, axles itc...
since i nievely bought my 02 with the salesmen saying 'any of my diesels will pull that trailer that u bought last week' i know i was stupid to believe him. my fault!!! i dont want to make another stupid mistake.
thanks for all the quick responses from u people. . i reallly appreciate it it is obvious that a dually would be more stable and safer than srw,, four wheels instead of two..... some of u mentioned liabiluity issues ,,, that is exactly what started my quest
part of my problem is i dont understnd the physical difference between an 06 2500 and an 06 3500. when i started this search a salesman said the only difference is the over load sprilngs and MAYBE one in the regular leaf stack. EVERYTHING else is the same, ie brakes, differentiial size, axles itc...
since i nievely bought my 02 with the salesmen saying 'any of my diesels will pull that trailer that u bought last week' i know i was stupid to believe him. my fault!!! i dont want to make another stupid mistake.
RJOL said:
Purchased truck on 12/3/2004
Weighed on 12/4/2004 - full tank of fuel and nerf bars. I stood off scales.
<A%20HREF=[ sizeimage.php?&photoid='25018&width=2"' user_gallery www.turbodieselregister.com img]http:>
Steer Axle said 4360 Both Axles 7200
After adding B&W hitch, etc. and with the 5th Wheel trailer, I weighed again. Same place. I regret not having the scale ticket, but I do have the numbers I keep in a spreadsheet along with tire specifications, etc. I will weigh again someday and post the scale ticket.
<A%20HREF=[ sizeimage.php?&photoid='24735&width=2"' user_gallery www.turbodieselregister.com img]http:>
With trailer - Steer axle 4400 Both Axles 9015
I don't take very many peoples word for granted either. I have the resource and smarts to check things out for myself and most of the time do it right. I use a lot of information from this forum - see the $9,000 of additions to my truck!
Might not be absolute exact point of discussion but sure a part of.
Check the pictures in the A1 Ram members photo album.
Last edited by a moderator:
One point I'd like to make here is that the 3500 is going to ride empty fairly similar to your 2500. However, when you load it up is when you will notice the fact that you have stiffer springs.
All this talk regarding you being overloaded if you dont get a dually or a 3500 is pointless unless you know the weights of your trailer. Get that data, figure out which rig will handle it, and buy it.
All this talk regarding you being overloaded if you dont get a dually or a 3500 is pointless unless you know the weights of your trailer. Get that data, figure out which rig will handle it, and buy it.
Here's my story, though I'm not saying it's right or wrong. We bought a 2004 2500 QC 4x4 with a payload of just over 2000 lbs. We later bought a fifth wheel with a pin weight of over 1800 lbs. Add: fuel (37 gallons + 20 extra = almost 400 lbs), me, wife & kids (375 lbs), firewood, bikes, tool box, etc. , we were well over the payload for starters. Was it dangerous or would I get sued or was it illegal? I don't know, but I was uncomfortable.
When looking for a 3500, we looked at all the numbers and everything else. We went with the DRW, not so much becasue we needed it for the current setup, but so there would be room to grow. Plus, with that investment, I would rather have it (capacity, that is) and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Anyway, you have to make your own decision and live with that.
When looking for a 3500, we looked at all the numbers and everything else. We went with the DRW, not so much becasue we needed it for the current setup, but so there would be room to grow. Plus, with that investment, I would rather have it (capacity, that is) and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Anyway, you have to make your own decision and live with that.
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