3.73 vs. 4.10 for towing

[willy1947]

What is the difference in towing capacity for a 2004 DRW 3500 6 speed with 3. 73 gears vs. same truck with 4. 10's? If any.



I got 3. 73's for overall fuel mileage and my towing should be 10,000# or less. (I really need to weigh my trailer soon). I tow about 2 weekends a month and it varys from about a 300 mile round trip to 1000 mile round trip. Sometimes more in the summer.



Just wanted some opinions if I made a good decision.



Right now the computer says 15. 4 MPG normal driving and my calculations say 16. 1 MPG. Plus, I have less 1400 miles on my truck I expect it to get better, but I am very pleased right now. I think towing the first time I got about 12 or 13 (per the computer), and this was up and down hills, with lots of stop and go driving.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Dean Upson]

If I remember right, it was a ton more with the 4:10's on the 2003's. Sould be the same.



Dean

 

[BHolm]

Mine tow big, daily. Loads are around 12-15k and both of mine are 3. 73 automatics. Milage empty with the QC is over 19mpg. Running 300 mile round trips, 15k lbs down and 8k lbs back gives me about 13mpg average.



The six speed should do a little better yet. I would only have bought the 4. 10's if I had to tow big through the mountains. For everything else I think 3. 73's are perfect.

 

[klenger]

http://www.klenger.net/dodge/3rd-gen-reference/2004-ram-towing.pdf

 

[thejeepdude]

That's a pretty interesting chart, klenger...



Things I noticed about the 3500's options...



The payload of SLT is 40lbs less than that of ST (to give an idea of what leather and dual A/C must weigh)



The GVWR of the auto and manual is the same, unlike my '99 which had higher rating on manual



The manual weighs over 200 lbs MORE than the auto



Therfore the auto is rated at 200lb MORE towing capacity than the manual



While the GVWR of the short box SRW auto is only 9900lb vs 12000lb for the long box DRW, the max trailer weight is 500lb HIGHER for the short box SRW (13950 vs 13450 for 3. 73, 15950 vs 15450 for 4. 10)



This would seem to indicate that if you goal is max rated towing capacity, you would want a short bed SRW auto, but if you want to haul a bunch of rocks around in the bed, you should get the long bed DRW. Of course we all know real world experience doesn't neccessarily agree, but interesting nonetheless!

 

[DPelletier]

21,000 GCWR vs. 23,000 GCWR. GVWR is the same at 12,000 lbs

 

[CATCRACKER]

3. 73 unless you plan to tow heavy and put oversized tires on the truck

 

[JTadra]

I have a similar question. I had a 90 12 valve with 3. 54? gears, I have a 98 24 valve with 3. 73 gears. Last Sept I ordered an 04 with 3. 73 gears, it was built 1-08-04 with the Cummins 600, But the gear ration was changed to 4. 10. I tow a 30 foot 5wheel. a few times a year. So, I was wondering what the RPM difference between the two ratios at a given speed, say 70mph is.



Thanks

Jim

 

[Dean Upson]

Originally posted by JTadra

I have a similar question. I had a 90 12 valve with 3. 54? gears, I have a 98 24 valve with 3. 73 gears. Last Sept I ordered an 04 with 3. 73 gears, it was built 1-08-04 with the Cummins 600, But the gear ration was changed to 4. 10. I tow a 30 foot 5wheel. a few times a year. So, I was wondering what the RPM difference between the two ratios at a given speed, say 70mph is.



Thanks

Jim

Jim,



Are you sure those are 3. 73's on your 98. 5? When I ordered my 98. 5 (late in the mode year), you could only get 3. 54's and 4. 10's. I believe that 2003 was the first year that 3. 73's were offered and that was mainly because of the increase in the rim size to 17".

I have had 4. 10's on my last two trucks with the manual transmission, and with the heavy trailer that I pull, I would never go with a lower ratio. In my case, I need the power on the low end more than I need the speed.



Dean

 

[JTadra]

Dean

Yep your correct, I just went out and looked at the sticker under the hood... 3. 55. Thats what I get by using my memory. The Ram usually tows well, and I'm picking up a lot of extra horses and torque so I was just wonderin about the gears. New truck is due here end of the month,



Jim

 

[willy1947]

I was worried about getting the 3. 73 gears vs. 4. 10 in 2004, but I thought since a lot of my towing is at speeds of 60+ MPH most of the time, that they would pay for themselves in fuel mileage. Plus my current trailer is about 10,000# max.



If I still had my 30' gooseneck though, I would have choosen differently. I used to haul 2 jeeps at a time on it. My 2500 didn't like it too much, but once you got it up to speed, it was good. TST helped me a bunch there



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Peter Campbell]

If you had 4. 10 manual 6 sp at 70 6th gear is 2294RPM with the auto it is 2168. If the truck came with 3. 73's it would be 2087 for the manual and 1972 for the auto. I have the 4. 1 manual and it does pull well. It also starts to be annoying over 2000 RPM. This is with the tires I have on my truck. Rated at 657 Revolutions per mile. When this set of tires wear out I may be getting some bigger tires- if the speedo can be fixed without setting ABS codes.

 

[JTadra]

OK It looks like a 196 RPM difference between the gears with the auto. My biggest complaint with my 98 is that when the Trans. locks up while towing my RPMs drop a few hundred and I lose my umph! So maybe the the 4. 10s will take care of that.



Jim

 

[Dean Upson]

Originally posted by JTadra

OK It looks like a 196 RPM difference between the gears with the auto. My biggest complaint with my 98 is that when the Trans. locks up while towing my RPMs drop a few hundred and I lose my umph! So maybe the the 4. 10s will take care of that.



Jim

I don't think you will regret having the lower gearing with the auto.



Dean

 

[Barry]

Final drive for the manual/373 is 2. 72 and final drive for the auto/410 is 2. 82. They are almost indentical... ... ... ..... mi dos pesos

 

[klenger]

I had 4. 10's on my 01, and they worked well pulling my 10K 5er. I debated between 4. 10's and 3. 73's on the '04. 5 and decided to go with the 3. 73 because with the increased torque (505 to 600 ft-lbs), the new one will still deliver more torque to the rear wheels with the 3. 73's than the old one did with 4. 10's, plus I think the power band is wider on the 3rd gens. We'll see.

 

[FDavid]

Originally posted by thejeepdude



While the GVWR of the short box SRW auto is only 9900lb vs 12000lb for the long box DRW, the max trailer weight is 500lb HIGHER for the short box SRW (13950 vs 13450 for 3. 73, 15950 vs 15450 for 4. 10)

Try towing a a heavy gooseneck with a srw short bed then do it in a dually thats supposedly rated to tow less and tell me which one does the job better.

Also I believe towing numbers are extremly conservative these days because of all the lawsuits etc etc.

By the way I have a dually with 3. 73's and tow 15k regualry-taking off in 2nd gear 90% of the time with a load. These trucks feel like they could easily do double that weight without breaking a sweat.

 

[thejeepdude]

Oh I believe you... just thought it was interesting that ratings really aren't based on what a truck can do, it's based upon what some highf'lootin office guys decided they could rate the thing. I'm sure they decide how much revenue increase they can expect from a higher load rating while not increasing it so high as to push their liability off the charts. It's all about $$...



So... we all agree the dually gets a higher real world load rating and therefore will pull a huge gooseneck much more comfortably, but what do you guys think about a bumper tow with a relatively low tongue weight... is the short bed really defficient in this scenario? My '99 short bed hasn't had any problems pulling a 8K car hauler up and down the sierras. When I get a 3G I plan on getting a short bed just for the maneuverability in tight spots, but I don't plan on towing more than about 10K very often. However, back to the original question... 373 vs 410... I am still undecided. I love the 3. 55's in my current truck when it's empty, but I wish it was lower when I'm towing. I think the 3. 73 would be enough of a compromise. I know the 4. 10 would be better pulling that trailer through the mountains, but with 600 foot pounds I would think the new truck should handle it fine with the 3. 73 and would benefit on those 1000+ mile unloaded trips. But then I plan to have 315's on the new truck and the 4. 10 might get me back to where a 3. 73 would be with the 265's. Decisions...

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by thejeepdude

Oh I believe you... just thought it was interesting that ratings really aren't based on what a truck can do, it's based upon what some highf'lootin office guys decided they could rate the thing. I'm sure they decide how much revenue increase they can expect from a higher load rating while not increasing it so high as to push their liability off the charts. It's all about $$...

bingo. this is what happens when the buyer worships numbers and does not think for himself. In other words, the buyer does not want to own or understand the real capabilities and safety limintations of the truck -- they want someone else to declare those capabilities and warrant them. For example, infering that the manual transmission really can't pull as much as the auto is pretty silly, when the NV5600 is extraordinarly durable compared to the auto! Yet indeed thats what the published ratings suggest.



The mfg has the following goals, in this order of importance:



1. profit. this includes protecting upsell potential, staying in the numbers game, etc.



2. staying legal. For example, GVWR is a statement of compliance that links the truck to the federal motor vehicle saftey standards. The mfg can put any number they want on the name plate, as long as they can show compliance when the vehicle is loaded to that weight. Personally, I wonder how many duallys they would sell if the SRW 3500 was really rated to is design limits, and the limiting factor was understood?



Its a hard nut to crack -- understanding the difference between design limits and published ratings. there may be good correlation in some cases, and not in others. all depends on the mfg goals. For example, GCWR is not a National Highway Transportation safety administratinon thing for passenger trucks (this number is not declared on the passenger door nameplate) but GVWR and axle ratings are!

 

[FDavid]

From what I have read, the general rule is If you get an Auto, get the 4. 10's. Besides you can always put bigger tires and end up with a theoretical 3. 73 ratio or whatever you are after