305/555 Juice/Attitude in w/ DD3's

[JStieger]

Well...



Me like a lot!!!



These are my observations so far running it with 100 HP injectors.



The only difficulty I had with the install was hooking up the fuel pressure connection. It wouldn't snap together all the way (clip has 1 mm to get over the raised nub!) probably because the rubber weather seal is not conditioned yet so I just zip tied the connection together. Also, the power for the Juice is off of #50 fuse (10 amp). Edge gives one of those fuse taps in which the female equivalent of the blade connector on the Juice harness slides onto the tap. This connection feels kind of loose and could be a problem on rough roads so we'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, I would like to find one of those fuse connector taps like the ones on the TST harness (crimp onto the wire style).



I already have an ATS manifold. My Westach gauge is tapped above the turbo flange reading the temps off the last 3 cylinders. The Juice is reading EGT off of the supplied ATS manifold port. At idle the Westach gauge reads about 25-50 degrees lower than the Juice. At cruise they read similar. During hard runs, the Juice EGT reads about 50-100 degree lower. I don't know if this is because of gauge differences, gauge locations (i. e. , back 3 cylinders would be hotter than the first 3), and/or all of the above.



So I went for about 1 hour of mixed driving and so far no codes. Yes, there are miracles in this world! I did hear a "ding-ding-ding" which made me immediately pull over. Then I read the display and it said "SPEED ALERT 70 mph". So after a quick read through the manual I turned the speed alert up to 90 mph. :-laf



Level 3 (65 hp) feels the same as when I had the DD TTPM pressure box on #4 (65 HP), except the JA feels stronger on the low end - probably because I set the low boost fueling to 4. (I actually set the low boost fueling to 4 for all power levels).



Level 4 and 5 feel like a TST PMCR stacked with a pressure box, but not as "violent" for lack of a better word - the boost and EGT come up very quick, but not as fast as the TST. Still this could be a turbo killer. I can't shift fast enough. I haven't tried low boost fueling level #5 because, frankly, I don't know if I can exercise self-control yet. Maybe tomorrow as there's too much traffic now. Then I can really see how the boost and EGT's do.



As far as smoke goes - it comes out pretty billowy and black at low boost and aggressive throttle on Levels 3-5, but cleans up quicker than with the pressure box only. It's like the TST in this regard probably because of the injection timing advance. JA off or level 1 or 2 = no smoke though (maybe a light puff on L2).



Overall I am pretty impressed! Also, really impressed with their good, clear instructions/manual. I hope to dyno at the end of August in Boise (Meridian Motorsports dyno day). If time permits I will dyno JA off through levels 1-5.



Here are some pics of where I mounted the display under the radio. From left to right are Westach EGT/boost, ISSPRO fuel pressure, ISSPRO oil pressure, then JA display. The display is out of the sun and not readily visible to other drivers...

 

[SBashaw]

Thanks for the feed back... ... . Still waiting for mine to show up!

 

[RankRam]

I'm glad you like it Julius!



Great report too.

 

[DLeno]

I already have an ATS manifold. My Westach gauge is tapped above the turbo flange reading the temps off the last 3 cylinders. The Juice is reading EGT off of the supplied ATS manifold port. At idle the Westach gauge reads about 25-50 degrees lower than the Juice. At cruise they read similar. During hard runs, the Juice EGT reads about 50-100 degree lower. I don't know if this is because of gauge differences, gauge locations (i. e. , back 3 cylinders would be hotter than the first 3), and/or all of the above.

The ATS manifold port is about 100 degrees cooler than the turbo flange location in my measurements as well, and my measurements with SPA digital gauges are consistent with yours.

 

[JStieger]

Dyno results

I went up to Meridian Motorsports this past Friday to dyno the various settings on their Dynojet. First, I got a baseline run with the Juice-Attitude (JA) off (boost fool only) to compare to the previous baseline run at Dyno-Mite Diesel in Monroe, WA since Meridian is at 2600 feet and it was a dry 100-degrees whereas Dyno-Mite was close to sea level and a wet 65-degrees. Then, I ran the JA through all 5 levels with the low boost (LB) fueling on 3. Lastly, I ran the JA through all 5 levels again with the LB = 5 (maximum). Here's the UNCORRECTED/actual rear wheel numbers:



JA off: 375 HP/700 TQ (Dyno-Mite baseline 375 HP / 714 TQ)

1xLB3: 391 HP/756 TQ

1xLB5: 396 HP/767 TQ

2xLB3: 406 HP/831 TQ

2xLB5: 403 HP/819 TQ

3xLB3: 420 HP/864 TQ

3xLB5: 418 HP/847 TQ

4xLB3: 446 HP/899 TQ

4xLB5: 447 HP/886 TQ

5xLB3: 476 HP/909 TQ

5xLB5: 473 HP/916 TQ



PROS:

-JA essentially delivers as Edge advertised - even on top of 100 HP injectors.

-smooth power delivery as shown in following dyno graphs with really flat torque curves in the usual driving rpm range up to redline.

-I forgot to turn the backdown feature off, but turned the EGT and boost defuel up to 1500*/ 45 psi respectively. The JA records showed no backdown due to high EGT or boost! The highest EGT and boost numbers I saw on my Westach gauge were 1400* and 38 psi, respectively on levels 4 and 5. So on the street you would know that the EGTs would get higher.

-the mileage setting (Level 1) is appearing to give me some mileage advantage over and above the cam. A couple more tanks will tell me for sure. I wonder if the mileage setting is mainly advanced injection timing only?

-Oh - ... and no codes yet!



CONS:

-TST PMCR is still the power king

-seat-of-pants dyno tells me that LB5 doesn't really do anything for me and kinds of feels doggy while blowing tons of smoke. The dyno graphs below confirm this with a very minor to no loss in HP, whereas the TQ loss is more noticeable on LB5. WHY??? Outside air temps (climbed 10-15 degrees from when I started to when I left)? We also lost tach pickup numurous times during the LB5 runs?? Running out of fuel?



Normally I will run on Level 1/LB3. This is first for mileage and second for smoke control, which is getting hard to do now at this altitude (5000 feet) and hot +95-degree weather. I also do hear more noise out of the engine on this setting compared to the other levels so it does make me wonder if the injection timing is advanced more on this setting, but backed off on the higher settings (to reduce cylinder pressures from I researched on other 24 valve hi-performance threads???).



Here's the first 5 dyno graphs comparing the low boost fueling levels at each JA level. In the next post will be a dyno sheet showing all the LB=5 runs compared to the baseline run as well as a sheet with the baseline dyno only.

 

[JStieger]

Here's a dyno sheet showing all the LB=5 runs compared to the baseline run as well as a sheet with the baseline dyno only:

 

[JasonCzerak]

I went up to Meridian Motorsports this past Friday to dyno the various settings on their Dynojet. First, I got a baseline run with the Juice-Attitude (JA) off (boost fool only) to compare to the previous baseline run at Dyno-Mite Diesel in Monroe, WA since Meridian is at 2600 feet and it was a dry 100-degrees whereas Dyno-Mite was close to sea level and a wet 65-degrees. Then, I ran the JA through all 5 levels with the low boost (LB) fueling on 3. Lastly, I ran the JA through all 5 levels again with the LB = 5 (maximum). Here's the UNCORRECTED/actual rear wheel numbers:



JA off: 375 HP/700 TQ (Dyno-Mite baseline 375 HP / 714 TQ)

1xLB3: 391 HP/756 TQ

1xLB5: 396 HP/767 TQ

2xLB3: 406 HP/831 TQ

2xLB5: 403 HP/819 TQ

3xLB3: 420 HP/864 TQ

3xLB5: 418 HP/847 TQ

4xLB3: 446 HP/899 TQ

4xLB5: 447 HP/886 TQ

5xLB3: 476 HP/909 TQ

5xLB5: 473 HP/916 TQ

hmm interesting. Going by the packaging here "low boost fueling" states that it's only fueling extra durning low boost conditions, once "high boost" is observed, it's not utilizing that feature. correct?



Your running short on HP and TQ becuase your running low of fuel, you spent it all down low and your fuel pump couldn't catch up.



this is the only logical thing I and come up with to explain the slightly lower numbers. Did you have a FASS or something at this time?





Short of swiss cheese intake, and flex pipped replacements for cat and muffer, I'm stock + Hot Juice and attitude. I have 2 pulls this weekend. I'll try LB on 5 and 3 and see how I do.

 

[JStieger]

hmm interesting. Going by the packaging here "low boost fueling" states that it's only fueling extra durning low boost conditions, once "high boost" is observed, it's not utilizing that feature. correct?



Your running short on HP and TQ becuase your running low of fuel, you spent it all down low and your fuel pump couldn't catch up.



this is the only logical thing I and come up with to explain the slightly lower numbers. Did you have a FASS or something at this time?





Short of swiss cheese intake, and flex pipped replacements for cat and muffer, I'm stock + Hot Juice and attitude. I have 2 pulls this weekend. I'll try LB on 5 and 3 and see how I do.

I made tons of black smoke with the HTB2 62/14 and my fuel pressure at the CP3 feed never dropped below 10 psi with my Holley Blue (110 gph) so I think I have enough fuel to the CP3, but not enough air to burn it.



I also have a rail pressure gauge, but not hooked up yet so maybe I was draining the rail and the CP3 couldn't keep up. I read on here that guys hooked up a DRB during runs and found less than 13,000 rail pressure then they started losing power, while making tons of smoke.



What I would like to see is HP / Torque versus time graph to tell me how fast the turbo spools.



I hope to go to dyno next Friday with my SPS 66 / 3-flow injector combo and then I'll ask them to plot my old graphs with the x-axis = time.

 

[DLeno]

in my tests, the TST on level 8 caused rail pressure to drop from 23,000 to about 12,000, while on level 7 it stayed at 23,000. when you drain the rail in this manner, power goes way down and EGTs go way up.



I have little exlanation for the single-digit drops in peak horsepower, apparently due to the low boost fueling setting, except perhaps for repeatability and the order in which the runs were made (all of the LB5 runs were made after all of the LB3 runs). I'm just guessing here, but peak charge density could have actually decreased for the LB5 runs because of elapsed time on the rollers, hotter engine compartment, etc.

 

[JasonCzerak]

in my tests, the TST on level 8 caused rail pressure to drop from 23,000 to about 12,000, while on level 7 it stayed at 23,000. when you drain the rail in this manner, power goes way down and EGTs go way up.



I have little exlanation for the single-digit drops in peak horsepower, apparently due to the low boost fueling setting, except perhaps for repeatability and the order in which the runs were made (all of the LB5 runs were made after all of the LB3 runs). I'm just guessing here, but peak charge density could have actually decreased for the LB5 runs because of elapsed time on the rollers, hotter engine compartment, etc.

Very possible.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I made tons of black smoke with the HTB2 62/14 and my fuel pressure at the CP3 feed never dropped below 10 psi with my Holley Blue (110 gph) so I think I have enough fuel to the CP3, but not enough air to burn it.



I also have a rail pressure gauge, but not hooked up yet so maybe I was draining the rail and the CP3 couldn't keep up. I read on here that guys hooked up a DRB during runs and found less than 13,000 rail pressure then they started losing power, while making tons of smoke.



What I would like to see is HP / Torque versus time graph to tell me how fast the turbo spools.



I hope to go to dyno next Friday with my SPS 66 / 3-flow injector combo and then I'll ask them to plot my old graphs with the x-axis = time.

rail pressure dropping, EGT up, makes sence when your running tons of boost. You "NEED" 23,000 rail pressure to over come say for example 50psi of boost (plus 18:1 compression). and then stil have enought pressure to atomize the fuel. , if you line pressure drops, you are basicly dribbling the fuel in and it wouldn't burn right. Makes perfect sence.

 

[JStieger]

in my tests, the TST on level 8 caused rail pressure to drop from 23,000 to about 12,000, while on level 7 it stayed at 23,000. when you drain the rail in this manner, power goes way down and EGTs go way up.



I have little exlanation for the single-digit drops in peak horsepower, apparently due to the low boost fueling setting, except perhaps for repeatability and the order in which the runs were made (all of the LB5 runs were made after all of the LB3 runs). I'm just guessing here, but peak charge density could have actually decreased for the LB5 runs because of elapsed time on the rollers, hotter engine compartment, etc.

What I'll do next time is do LB3 followed by LB5 for each setting so



1x3

1x5

2x3

2x5

etc.



When I started it was pretty cool weather wise, but an hour later the clouds cleared and it did get noticeably warmer outside. Maybe I should PM you when I go for sure since you're in Boise anyway? I was going to give cquestad off of the DTR site a call too!



I also need to get off my butt and install the SPA rail pressure gauge, but it would be nice to have someone in the cab also taking some readings because there is just too much stuff to watch... EGT, boost, fuel pressure, rpm, engine temp, and rail pressure at the same time!

 

[HOBrian]

You know you make a butt load of power when you are close to running out of room on the chart :--)

 

[KLockliear]

You know you make a butt load of power when you are close to running out of room on the chart :--)

LOL. Looks that way huh. The Dynojet software will auto-scale to fit the graph.