3g Death Wobble

[THUREN]

so by getting the axle to move more vertically opposed to forward on a bump do you mean returning the truck to stock height to correct the arc the axle swings when hitting a bump. what does the term backspacing mean when referring to tires/axle.

A stock height truck will surely be less prone to death wobble. It's amazing how often I get calls and the DW started right after putting on the leveling kit. Even stock though, these trucks are pretty high and the lower control arms don't sit flat. Even if they were parallel to the ground, that only takes care of the problem though for the first few inches of travel, so if you have long travel suspension, the angles come right back when the axle drops out...



Backspacing is how deep the wheel is behind the lug-nut face... .



-Don

 

[THUREN]

QUESTION?... ... . IS THIS DW ONLY ON 4X4... OR... . 2X4..... AND WHAT YEARS... ... I HAVE A 07 2X4 DRW 3500 WITH RACK AND PINION STEERING... HAVING TO GET USE TO THE R&P STEERING... ... EVEN STOCK IT PULLS LIKE A GROWN MAN... ... trucksalesdave... . central Georgia

Any vehicle can get it, but it is most common and a true concern with the Dodge 4x4'S mostly. When a truck comes off the lot and has DW within the first 10,000 miles, it is a real issue... .





I've been behind the wheel when DW happens with anything from a 66' Lincoln continental, to a solid axle leaf sprung K5 Blazer. Just a few months ago I watched a two-wheel drive Dodge Ram shake itself so hard, right behind me on the freeway, that the tires started to smoke and it wobbled itself across the slow lane. It finally stopped the DW shake after coming down to about 5mph on the shoulder. Within a minute the nut behind the wheel was back in the fast lane and passed me going about 80...



"Most" other vehicles that get DW, besides Dodge 4x's, have VERY worn out components which cause it... .

 

[JessePayne]

so longer control arms could possibly help out the situation. Do you have any plans on fabricating adjustable longer control arms.

 

[JessePayne]

Well I answered my own question about the longer control arms. Coming soon according to thurens website. Another question for thuren about the crossover steering and his 2nd gen track bar. How long do the heim joints last with normal road driving with occasional offroad use. also what type of modifications do you recommend for the crossover steering on 2nd gen with Kore leveling kit.

 

[vrabelm]

Does anyone know where I could get a pitman arm with a two inch drop to bring the track bar and the drag link parallel again. I have a two inch lift in the front and I believe this is the cause of my DW. I have a jeep that had DW after I lifted it and cured it with a dropped pitman arm.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I installed a leveling kit... . front 2" spacers AND Goodrich 315 tires and wheels from an H2 Hummer at the same time.



I had DW from then on. Mostly wanted to start at 50-60 mph hitting an angled bump.



I was advised to get rid of the Goodrich 315's. I did not.



I switched to the Kore leveling kit with springs instead of spacers. I experimented with caster.



Still had DW.



Kore sent a free set of stabilizer bar drop blocks to see if it would help. It helped a little but still DW 60mph and over.



I played with tire pressures . I found that slight variations from side to side could really aggravate it. Had the tires rebalanced. Helped a little but still there.



After over a year of worrying about when it would happen next I finally started spending more money.



I bought the Carli Suspensions Dual Fox Stabilizer system. Cost over $600. Very nice setup. Right after I installed it I went for a test drive to try and make DW occur. I couldn't make it happen but I could get it to do a short wobble. The new stabilizer system was catching it and stopping it but I could still feel it wanted to try on those "special" bumps.



Than I installed the TOYO tires.



I will tell you right now hands down it was the tires in my case. There is absolutely zero hint of DW now. I can drive 100mph with never a hint. What a relief. I wished I changed the tires sooner.



Yes there probably are other reasons but all too often people running soft sidewall tires get the DW when doing lifts and leveling.



I have also recently installed the Thuren Tracbar which is a very beefy unit just to finish off the setup.



I conquered DW. This was the only real issue I had with this truck.



BTW I still have all my original ball joints and steering components.

 

[Kry226]

I wonder why tires would be the culprit in one case but not another?



I have the 315s, KORE, and stock everything else, to include stabilizer, and I never have had even the slightest hint of DW. After installing the KORE, I had it aligned and told the tech to ensure there was at least 5* positive caster. After looking at the front end and while doing the alignment, he told me it was already at 5* from the factory. I am very anal about tire pressures and run 50 PSI up front exclusively and 45 in the rear.



40K on the truck now and 315s have been on since 5K.

 

[Yo Hoot]

The soft sidewalls. If a particular truck has the tendancy, the 315's will help it occur. They're jelly rolls.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Link>>> THIS setup is probably the best you can get.

#ad




I no longer spend time worrying about the front end.





04 2500 4x4, QC SB SLT, 305/555, 48RE H2 Wheels, Toyo OC M/T's, Kore, Gutted Intake Tube/Silencer Ring AWOL, 5" RIP Straight Pipe 6" SS TIP, Mag-Hytec, K3LA Loco Horn

DURAMAX FOR SNAX



04 DODGE PICS AND INFO

01 GMC DMAX/ALLY

 

[blmyachtsales]

I agree Yo Hoot, Awsome setup as far as steering stabilizers go. But A steering stabilizer does not eliminate the problem it hides it. A properly set up front end without a stabilizer should not have DW ever. I am not saying a stabilizer is useless, they are great at doing their intended job and yours is probably the best, but eliminating DW is not one of them. Tell me more about that intake tube you have?

 

[Yo Hoot]

I agree Yo Hoot, Awsome setup as far as steering stabilizers go. But A steering stabilizer does not eliminate the problem it hides it. A properly set up front end without a stabilizer should not have DW ever. I am not saying a stabilizer is useless, they are great at doing their intended job and yours is probably the best, but eliminating DW is not one of them. Tell me more about that intake tube you have?

I believe the Dodge suspension design is highly suseptable to DW when certain parameters are violated.



I agree the stabilizer system is a mask but if it controls it so be it. I have tried almost every suggestion. The two things that really did the deal was the stabilizer system and higher quality tires. Not everyone will have the same fix as me and not everyone will do as did. I was told repeatedly to get rid of the BFG's but I wanted to wear them out. That was a huge mistake. The BFG's were a major DW contributor with my truck.



Remember I am running a Kore leveling setup and larger than stock tires. The stabilizer system fits in with the other mods perfectly, helping to control hard jarring through the entire front end.



That intake tube I have is simply stock with the guts removed.



LOOK HERE



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[GColeman]

The soft sidewalls. If a particular truck has the tendancy, the 315's will help it occur. They're jelly rolls.

I have been one of the lucky ones. 40K on the truck with orig. ball joints, stabilizer 2" leveling spacers and running BFG 315s since day one and no sign of DW. I'll probably get another 5K out of these tires. I notice that BFG now offers a 315 All Terrain in load range E. I have always had good luck with BFG ATs on previous trucks. Now with higher load rating, they should even be better.



The stiffer sidewalls may help some folks who have suffered with DW.

 

[DThelen]

I thought the Death Wobble was somewhat caused by the lifts and offset rims people put on there trucks. I think your steering would have to be pretty shot to have the problem. Coming for a person that never has had a problem with it yet.









Dan

 

[GColeman]

Yo Hoot:



How are your Toyo's working out? What size and model did you get?



I'm almost do for new tires and would consider Toyos

 

[BGlidewell]

very strange. I thought this phenomenon was specific to motorcycles. We call it a tank-slapper. These are often encountered at high acceleration and under other conditions like seen in this thread. A steering stabilizer is the only thing that I've seen that stops it on a bike. It may be bit more encompassing on a bike too. The force of the forks being slammed back and forth at high frequency causes the hydraulics to the MC to malfunction and even if you come out of the tank-slapper still upright and on your mount, now you have lost 99% of your braking power. I had steering stabilizers on all my bikes. I think I remember the bikes with less rake were more prone to this as well.

 

[betterthanstock]

My theory is that too much toe-in is one of the triggers of DW.



When people lift their trucks, too few realize that it will make their wheels have too much toe-in. Look at the steering links (tie rods). Anything other than horizontal, will cause steering wander (left-right) and toe in/out change every time suspension goes up and down. I get scared looking at those lift kits and seeing both trac bar and steering bar diagonal. With every up motion, the whole axle slides right, and on the way down it slides (sideways) to the left. How obvious can that be? All lift kits should drop the steering box, not the links, down by the amount of the lift (6 inches or whatever), and the same for the track bar mounting point on the frame (raising the attachment point on the axle will also introduce side-to side wander). Then a new steering column should be installed to connect down to the lowered gear box.



I suggest you with stock height, or small (2 inch lifts) and DW, try aiming for zero toe in, and see how that feels.

 

[CLWilliams]

Yo Hoot-



I agree with you. I had an '03 that never could be corrected from DW and forced me to get rid of it. In hindsight, I believe it was the 315's that did me in. I never had the problem until the 2" leveling kit and the 315's. Too scary for me to keep the truck. I'm sure it made some farmer a good one!

 

[Yo Hoot]

Mine is 100% cured. Those tires suck on these trucks. Night and day after changing them.

I have 48,000 miles. Except for the mod parts I still have my original ball joints and the front end never had an alignment.

It never even thinks about wobble even at higher speeds and hard bumps.

Finally not something on my mind when running down the highway.

The TOYOs are almost perfectly balanced. One tire didn't need any weights and the most was 2 ounces.

They are a bit hard riding due to the heavy side walls. They are awesome looking. I'm always getting asked about them.

 

[MMarini]

Okay I have experienced the DW multiple times and it not fun, I have had the problem on all 4 of my trucks from a 96-04. 5. It can be come from a few different things on my 96 it was because of big tires that didn't balance well, then the stock track bar. On my 04. 5 it was because of the caster being off and a cheap steering stabilizer I fixed the caster and installed a fox stabilizer and now have 37" tires and have never had a problem since. So I would check all those different areas until it is fixed. Its usually caused by some kind of play in the front ends, eliminate the play eliminate the DW.

 

[JPereira]

I have been searching around the site trying to find post relating to the front end alignments for a 3rd Gen. I cannot find what I thought I had read before on this site. In this post I read a couple differnt caster settings. Can someone PM / post what I should be telling a front end shop to set my truck up properly? I wil be putting Rickson rims and G-rated 19. 5 inch tires on my truck and want to have alignment to hopefully prevent the DW from ever happening. 68k and I have never had the DW and do not want to.



2004. 5 HO stock suspension, no leveling, Rancho 9000 shocks



Thanks, Jeff