2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission 3rd gen trackbar: better bushings?

[SRath]

It's no secret I'm thoroughly fed up and digusted with the endless money pit beneath my Cummins (does congress live under there?). The truck is relegated to nothing but short, local driving anymore because the doggone shake is so constant and irritating and dangerous. No more death wobble at least, but I positively hate driving this truck. Now I need to make a simple 1000 mile round trip and will have to take the 81 Chevy K20 because the dodge is still not roadworthy for such a trip. So much for the benefit of the diesel fuel economy...



The shake is the same as I would always experience as the truck ate stock trackbars like candy. That's why I spent the big bucks for the fully adjustable 3rd gen trackbar when I rebuilt and upgraded everything so very recently. I cannot see any slop when I have my son crank the wheels back and forth, but I can't find any slop anywhere else either (and the T-style steering components, balljoints and shocks, control arms and everything else is also equally new and upgraded). I had my doubts about the polyurethane bushings that came installed with the 3rd gen trackbar lasting very long, and I now wonder if they are bad despite no visible slop?



Has anyone else experienced short life from them and is there a better solid bushing or bearing alternative to them that will fit that expensive trackbar?

 

[Regcabguy]

Have you hovered over the tire guy and assured he zeros out the tire on the balance machine? Mine were 4ozs. off at a major tire dealer. Also are you sure the wheels are true?. Just grasping at straws. The 3rd gen trackbar on my 2nd gen was fine after after 25+ Baja trips. Also,what brand tire are you running? I had constant vibes from BFG KO's. Switched to Toyos and no more issues.

 

[SRath]

BFG KO's, except for the most recent one that blew out was replaced with a nearly identical used Procomp. I'm done wasting money on new tires for this pos.



But I have often thought the same thing: they aren't being balanced right. But you would think the focus of the shake would shift as I rotated the positions of the tires, wouldn't you? When I'm driving, I swear it is the driver's side front, and the tire at that position has blown twice in the past year catastrophically. But when my son drives and I'm in the passenger seat, I swear the shake is coming from the passenger side front.



I've got 4 trucks out here; 3 pre-87 Chevys (the good ones) and the dodge. I'm going to swap the wheels & tires from one of the K20 Chevys and see what happens, but I don't think it will help. Both K20 Chevys have aftermarket wheels, and so does my dodge, so the wheels should hopefully fit, even though stock steel chevy wheels won't fit dodges anymore. All 3 of those trucks have 285-75R-16 tires. The K30 has 37" military tires and they won't even begin to fit on the dodge.



I paid big bucks for those forged aluminum wheels for the dodge, and they have had many tires on them since the dodge has always had a voracious appetite for tires. It has never mattered what brand, new or used, or who mounted and balanced them or what I replaced in the steering and suspension, or how many alignments and tire balancings, the shake has always been there. Even fully rebuilding and balancing the driveshafts did not help. Sometimes I have gotten it down to being very, very faint, but it is always there and increasing until the tires are trashed. Never the rear ones, of course, just the fronts. But since I have to rotate often, they all end up junk prematurely. As soon as the fronts start showing uneven wear, I move them trying to squeeze a few miles out the set.

 

[Regcabguy]

I had vibes the moment I got on the freeway with the BFG's. I fought and fought with BFG and the local tire dealership over this issue. "It's the truck" they insisted.



Well,I had some Toyo M-55's installed and that was it.



Prior to the Toyo's I had Bridgestone load range D AT's. Quiet,smooth tire that got flats constantly. One finally blew out leading me to the KO's. Didn't work out.



I'm a Toyo guy.

 

[SRath]

I had Dunlops to begin with after buying brand new wheels and tires when I first bought the truck used. They lasted 2 years before becoming square. The BFGs haven't been any better. This truck just destroys front tires.



It was my intention, after I gathered all the new parts and upgrades to solve the dodge problem once and for all, to buy 19. 5's and solve the tire problem once and for all, too. But with the steering/suspension problem already almost as bad as ever, there's not much point now. There used to be things about the dodge besides the cummins that I really liked, but those are getting harder to remember every time I drive it and fight and dread that shake.

 

[AEdelheit]

Seeing as how the truck eats through front tires are you sure the alignment is correct? Also have you checked the unit bearings for play?

 

[fest3er]

A young-ish F. E. specialist back in IL years ago told me the first thing he does when he buys a Dodge (or almost any 4WD P/U) is replace the bushings (all of them) with greasable brass.

I know you've said you've changed everything. But, since the problem remains, there must be something you've overlooked or just not considered. Camber sleeves? Cracked/broken frame, mounts, shock towers? (Steering gear mounts on frame have been known to crack/break, as have shock towers and spring mounts. ) Bearings? Brakes? (A stuck caliper can easily feel like an out-of-balance tire. ) Put the frame on blocks and pull all four wheels. Put it in 4x4 and slowly run it up in speed; see if any corner is out of balance. Use a bottle jack as a spreader and see what moves that shouldn't. You're past finding the problem using small static forces. You need to move into the 1000# to 4000# realm of forces.

 

[SRath]

One thing I noticed when I installed the 3rd gen trackbar and the adapter mount was that the adapter mount flexes when the wheels are turned lock-to-lock while stationary despite it's 1/2" thick gusseted construction. It needs to be solidly welded to the frame, imo. Think that could be causing it? Anyone else with a 3rd gen trackbar conversion experienced or noticed this?



As for the unit hubs, they have not been replaced. They have been drilled and fitted with grease zerks. I cannot get any play out of them, but as Neal points out, I can't exert the same road forces very easily either while the truck is parked.



I have most of what I need to do a ford live-bearing lockout hub conversion except for the inner axle shafts and the ford calipers. If the rest of the frontend and tires would stop eating my money up that mod would already be finished. Usually, the stock dodge unitized hubs are either good or bad with no inbetween (and certainly no adjustment), meaning they either spin freely or fall to pieces leaving you sitting somewhere. But maybe they can get sloppy without failing completely for thousands of miles. . ?



the shimmy-shake sure feels like a wheel fixing to fall off.

 

[AEdelheit]

I have seen the unit bearings go out and feel exactly like a bad ball joint, they will last a surprisingly long time like that, although normally with a form of leverage you can get them to move when testing them.

 

[SRath]

Then I'm going to get a long bar and leverage them as hard as I can and really look for that. There just isn't much else left. They're expensive enough that I hate to lay out that kind of cash on a "maybe" since I want to do away with them altogether, but if it solves the problem, even just until then, it's worth it.

 

[AEdelheit]

well, why not just put the money towards the rest of the parts to do the ford conversion then? Might as well do how you want if your spending the $$ Good luck though let us know what you ever find!

 

[SRath]

Parts still needed:



35 spline inner axles > $600

Loaded ford brake calipers & mounting hardware > $160

35 spline outer stub shafts > $300

35 spline inner side gears > donated from extra chevy parts

brake hoses & adapters > ??

inner, outer, and stub shaft bearings & seals > $150



I already have:

> Ford knuckles

> Ford spindles

> new ford hubs, rotors, studs, races

> Warn premium 35 spline lockouts



There's going to be some trial and error and parts chasing involved in adapting the dodge brake hoses to the ford dual piston calipers, I'm sure, and I don't know of anyone who has done it this way.



Converting and upgrading that front axle is not cheap and is how it should have remained in the first place from dodge; just like the 1st gen dodges* and older chevys were already. Even after all of that, the balljoints remain a weak link that cannot be upgraded to kingpins. And the housing itself, bearing the great weight of the cummins, is not as strong as a non-CAD Dana 60 housing. An axle truss would be a good idea.



*dodge D60's never had 35 spline inner shafts; chevy did. Dodges were 30-spline like they are now. Neither came with 35 spline (dana 70) outers, but it has always been a popular upgrade.



Anyway, that's why I don't just finish it right now; I don't have an extra $1300+ laying around.



I already spent:



> new Moog balljoints

> new spicer axle shaft ujoints

> new Moog complete T-style steering linkage

> new CAD & axle shaft seals

> new brake pads & caliper hardware; rotors turned & checked for trueness

> 2 new front driveshaft spicer ujoints and driveshaft balancing; new straps & bolts

> all new spicer ujoints, carrier bearing, strap kit, and balancing for rear driveshaft

> DSS steering box brace (mine was poorly made and did not fit without much modification. No response from seller/manufacturer)

> 3rd gen adjustable trackbar with installation adapter kit (costs extra)

> aftermarket adjustable control arms (4) with polyurethane bushings.

> new sway bar end links & poly bushings.

> new Rancho RSX9000 shocks (4)

> new Rancho steering stabilizer and mounting kit

> precision 4 wheel alignment on state-of-the-art brand new Hunter equipment

> wheels & tires rebalanced for umpteenth time



The truck has never had a lift or leveling kit of any sort. Never needed one.



You can see what a huge money pit that front axle & steering has been. Thousands upon thousands of dollars in parts. And it still shakes, destroys tires, and sucks.



As I said, my factory unitized hubs were still apparently tight & working smoothly and not replaced when I did all of this less than 8k miles ago, but I did add grease zerks & grease while they off and cleaned up. All components are lubed with Amsoil grease. Was there improvement? Sure, no more Death Wobble, but the gocarts we built as kids shook less.



My steering is smooth and has no slop; it always has been smooth; and there is no indication my steering box or shaft has any problems.



So for now I'm looking at new replacement unitized hubs just to hopefully make the thing driveable. Rockauto has many brands and prices to choose from ranging from about $75 each to $200 each. I have no idea whether to buy cheap ones or big-name ones.



I have less invested in BOTH of the rustfree K20 Chevy trucks (the entire trucks) than I have in this miserable dodge frontend alone. And they are 25 & 30 years old and drive great with the same exact 285-75R-16 tire size. Leafspring suspension and kingpin/live bearing front axles positively rule on heavy duty trucks. If you doubt that, look under a semi. Those Chevys still have their original brake & fuel lines, too. The dodge hardlines wouldn't last that long laying on a parts shelf in their packages.



It sucks to keep asking myself to honestly evaluate whether the dodge is worth spending more money on or if it is long past time to just remove the cummins and transplant it in the crewcab srw K30 and just junk the dodge. . ?

 

[SRath]

Don't have my 'assistant' around today, and it's difficult to pry & wiggle & yank & turn things while looking for slop at all the many, many moving parts & joints at the same time, but I gave it my 3rd time in 3 weeks best shot again and can't detect any play in those wheel bearings -- or anything else. I keep trying to find new ways to pry, yank, turn, and pull on things.



I wonder if I can find a shop around here that can do a dynamic wheel balance with the wheels & tires mounted on the truck, if they can do them this size. Spin 'em up and see what the machine says while they're mounted. Maybe whatever is causing the shimmy-shake at road speed will show itself that way...