4:10 rear end troubles

[Schumacher]

zzollwalk, Yes the center carrier on the driveline. I'll be following your posts on the one piece driveline.

 

[Alan Reagan]

If that is the case, the gear set did not have a snowballs chance...The ring and pinion is a matched set.

In my opinion, the factory is using gear oil too light for heavy duty use. I also think the oil needs changed in the first few thousand miles on a new truck if you tow heavy.

Nick

Agree. Mine had a rear end whine under load at 65-70 mph. That was at about 15k miles. When the tech pulled the rear cover there was a lot of metal filings. He said it was due to incorrect lash set at the factory. He said everything had to be replaced. At almost 40k now, no more whine and no other problems. Mine has the 3.42.

 

[TCollier]

I was going to wait until 30k miles to change the lube in mine so it’d fall in line with the transmission oil change. I’ve only got 2.5k miles towing a 12,500# fifth wheel so I thought 30000 miles more than prudent. But I started getting a chatter when making slow hard turns (without towing anything) so I went ahead and changed it at 25k. The color was pretty dark, the plug had a fair amount of sludge on it, not an alarming amount. There were some small shavings, not many, in the bottom of the bucket. It didn’t seem enough to be concerned about. But I’m glad I went ahead and changed it. It was definitely due. The lube in my 06 after 50k mile seemed better looking. I followed all the guidelines, first 500 towing was slower than 50 mph, I may have cheated up to 55 a couple times but nothing more and the truck already had 2000 miles then.

 

[zzollwalk]

Update!! I got an education on how my 4:10 rear works..in the gear assy that the ring gear bolts to, you have gears and clutch's that control 4x4 lockup, traction control and speed difference when going around corners..the tech took off the rear cover and found no unusual wear or metal pieces..apparently the oil was too thin to provide adequate lubrication (75/90) when the rear was under a load..the dealer up the oil to 75/140 full synthetic and said lets see if this helps..I was skeptical, but I went along with it..went home, got my trailer and towed it 1/2 loaded for about 550 miles..no noise in the rear..I was waiting until I was fully loaded before I could say that the problem was solved..got into New Jersey and fully loaded the trailer..never heard another sound come from the rear for the duration of my trip..I was impressed that this simple change could make that much of a difference..the tech said that the sounds I was hearing and feeling was the rear working properly but the oil was not properly lubricating it..the only time I thought that I might have heard or felt something is when the truck would sit over night and as I started driving it in the morning, it seemed like the oil needed to get back around the gears..after about 100 feet..no noise..So now the only issue I'm having with the drive line is the shutter in the drive shaft carrier bearing..which if you know your vehicle, is a different feel then the rumble of the rear end..(some of you know what I mean)..Should be getting a one piece shaft next Monday the 2nd..will update when that's done..thanks for reading..

 

[AH64ID]

Very interesting.

Conversations I have had with AAM indicate that a 75w-90 is adequate for all uses within the GCWR, but that was a couple years ago. I wonder if their tune has changed.

 

[zzollwalk]

I do not know..I know what seams to have worked in this 2016 4:10 rear end..I will be changing the oil in the rear and transmission about every 20k due to the work I'm doing with the truck..I already change my engine oil every 10k mile and I use shell rotella 15w40 synthetic blend..I used this oil in my 2007.5 6.7 until it had about 535,000 miles on it and I never had an internal engine problems nor did the truck burn any oil between my 10,000 oil changes..

 

[Bob4x4]

You have been mislead,there are no clutches in your diff.The Trac-Rite™ differential is a helical gear differential. When they replaced the ring and pinion did they change bearings as well?

 

[Newsa]

You have been mislead,there are no clutches in your diff.The Trac-Rite™ differential is a helical gear differential. When they replaced the ring and pinion did they change bearings as well?

Are there any "brakes" in the rear limited slip diff?

Or is that why we are encouraged to use a little service brake to provide resistance ?

 

[Bob4x4]

When one wheel begins to spin the pinion gears (2) on that side, are forced toward the pinion brake shoes (1). The pinion brake shoes then cause frictional drag on the opposite pinion gears and the side gear. These friction forces transfer the power to the opposite wheel. Once the frictional forces are overcome, differentiation will occur. The torque will be continually biased by the frictional forces to the high traction wheel.

 

[Newsa]

1) Is it weird that I can occasionally "feel" the assembly slamming against the shoe?

2) Might be that friction modifier I added at my last differential service might affect the friction at the shoe? I did install a modified (higher capacity) differential cover which will dilute the friction modifier a bit.

 

[TCollier]

Very interesting.

Conversations I have had with AAM indicate that a 75w-90 is adequate for all uses within the GCWR, but that was a couple years ago. I wonder if their tune has changed.

I would also like to know this. I went with 75-90 because I read the same thing. I like that it’s a tad heavier than the recommended 75-85 and it’s the same as whats listed for the 4500/5500. I almost went with a 75-110 but figured I’m more than covered with Syn-Power 75-90.

 

[SnoKing]

Cummins12V98 both are using Amsoil 75W/110 severe gear lube. SnoKing

 

[NIsaacs]

Very interesting.

Conversations I have had with AAM indicate that a 75w-90 is adequate for all uses within the GCWR, but that was a couple years ago. I wonder if their tune has changed.

That might have been before Ram upped the GCW to 39k. My guess is, if Ram continues to up the Cummins power and GCW they will Change to heavier oil or a bigger axle. The move to the aluminum fined differential cover is just a bandaid fix/mask, when in reality the axle needs heavy oil and never mind fuel savings.

It is my understanding that Ford uses 75/140 in their diesel powered super duty's.

Can you emagine the power going into that rear axle with a Cummins, 30k+ gcw, 6-7% grades and about 3rd gear, on a hot day?

Remember the 3rd gen threads of the paint burning off the dif covers? The excuse was the paint was poor quality, I don't think so.....

Nick

 

[AH64ID]

Ford has always ran a stiffer gear oil, but they also run a different axle.

Dodge/Ram recommends 75w-140 in the 2nd gens that tow heavy, but also a different axle.

GM also uses the AAM 11.5 and recommends 75w-90, but they don't have the GCWR of a Ram from what I recall (But still around 30K IIRC). I understand the 11.8 still uses the same housing, bearings, and carrier but with a larger R&P.

 

[Jared Herzog]

I had bad hopping in my diff when turning with hot fluid at 8811 miles. I changed the fluid with a 50/50 mix of amsoil 75/90 and valvoline 75/140. I will either use this mix again or go straight 75/140. The factory stuff was junk. #ad

 

[SnoKing]

I had bad hopping in my diff when turning with hot fluid at 8811 miles. I changed the fluid with a 50/50 mix of amsoil 75/90 and valvoline 75/140. I will either use this mix again or go straight 75/140. The factory stuff was junk. #ad

Why not just use Amsoil 75W/110 ? SnoKing

 

[gsbrockman]

That might have been before Ram upped the GCW to 39k. My guess is, if Ram continues to up the Cummins power and GCW they will Change to heavier oil or a bigger axle. The move to the aluminum fined differential cover is just a bandaid fix/mask, when in reality the axle needs heavy oil and never mind fuel savings.

It is my understanding that Ford uses 75/140 in their diesel powered super duty's.

Can you emagine the power going into that rear axle with a Cummins, 30k+ gcw, 6-7% grades and about 3rd gear, on a hot day?

Remember the 3rd gen threads of the paint burning off the dif covers? The excuse was the paint was poor quality, I don't think so.....

Nick

Yes I can.....except I only hit 4th a few times. :-laf

 

[Jared Herzog]

Why not just use Amsoil 75W/110 ? SnoKing

I probably will. With this particular change i thought i had a bad carrier in the diff. I figured the dealer would be opening it up and dumping the fluid anyway. I had the Amsoil 75w90 on hand for a past vehicle and wanted to thicken it up a bit. So i have no real good reason for doing what i did. I am going to do another full swap at 30,000 miles and send the fluid to blackstone. The results of that stock fluid were weird. I will be using thicker fluid next time and likely the 75w110. My mix got me to just over 110 with stuff i had and could get at a local parts place. The truck stays in Texas and at highway speeds so it is hot. Since the fluid swap i have not had a single issue of hop or chatter while turning. The results were immediate and permanent so far. Here is a copy of the results from the factory fluid. I did not add friction modifier when i swapped the fluid. Both were GL5. #ad