4 Season RV

[Shadrach]

Aside from the Nash/ Arctic Fox group of trailers made by Northwoods who else make a good 4 season RV? In particular on older (2000-2010 ) fifth wheel in the 26-28 foot range? A good example of what I am talking about is the 27-5L made by Northwoods.

 

[NIsaacs]

Some good info here.

https://rvexpertise.com/5th-wheels/cold-weather/

https://rvexpertise.com/travel-trailers/4-season/

 

[slowmover]

“Cold weather” extends thru daytime highs just above freezing. Some sunlight. That’s the ragged edge.

Past that is attempts to make a vehicle what it isn’t.

Problems with storage of water — then use of water — plus damage by water (condensation) are what await the unwary.

What can be done . . versus observing limits. There’s a point where one moves out or moves away. Can’t be pushed too far without expensive damage.

.

 

[SnoKing]

“Cold weather” extends thru daytime highs just above freezing. Some sunlight. That’s the ragged edge.

Past that is attempts to make a vehicle what it isn’t.

Problems with storage of water — then use of water — plus damage by water (condensation) are what await the unwary.

What can be done . . versus observing limits. There’s a point where one moves out or moves away. Can’t be pushed too far without expensive damage.

.

Well said!

One needs drying heat and a propane furnace is more or less the opposite of that. If one plans to be "off grid" this becomes a MAJOR issue! A trailer would do better without people it! We are one of the main issues!

 

[Shadrach]

Maybe I should clarify. I live in Canada ( think Jasper and Banff Alberta ) and while RV season is short for us ( end of May to end of Sept usually ) it can get cold in the mountains. I have woken up to Snow in the middle of Aug at 6000 feet elevation. I want a 4 seasons ( or in my case really a 3 seasons ) trailer so I am more comfortable while sleeping. When you roll over in the night and your head goes on a different part of the pillow and it wakes you up because it is colder that the part you were just on it means your trailer isn't insulated enough. I don't plan on going out when it is below freezing temps. Even with 2 6 volts and 2 solar panels that heater draws a lot of power if you have to use it all night long. If I keep the thermostat set to say 15*C or 60*F and it it drops colder than that I use a lot of battery up. I dry camp a lot so no power to plug in and I can't run a genset all night long. With a better insulated trailer it will keep warmer inside while using less power and LPG.

I am familiar with the Nash and Arctic Fox but what else is out there? As I said I only want a 26-28 footer, fifth wheel and not super heavy ( 8-12l lbs ) . We used to have a company in Alberta that made a trailer called a Roughneck and it was good to -40. It was designed to the oil patch as an office/ living quarters unit. They didn't have a slide on them as they were too hard to seal up and were usually about 30' long. You could even get them with a pintle hitch and a "cargo tray" on the back that would hold 4 100 lb LP bottles on it.

 

[AH64ID]

Another branch of the Nash Family RV's is Outdoors RV. They came onto the scene in ~2010, and are a great 4 season camper.

Not many 5th wheels in the early days thou. We have a 2011 275SBS, it's just a hair longer than the 27-5L at 31'5", but only weighs in around 11-12K max. GVWR is 10K, but it has a pair of 5.2K axles and the frame to support it. In the early days ORV really underrated their GVWR's across the board, even thou the trailers were overbuilt and designed for back roads camping and travel.

Great 4 season capability. We took it hunting over Veterans Day weekend and it was -5°F Thursday night into Friday morning. Temps didn’t get above freezing until we were most of the way home Sunday. We saw single digits, or lower, each night. Camper had no issues staying 72° in the evenings with the ambient temp below 10°F, and the first 7 gal tank of propane lasted into the 3rd night, but didn’t make morning (thank you auto-changeover). We would turn the furnace down to 55° at night (all except Friday night as we needed more heat to dry out some wet hunting clothes/gear) and that was more that enough to keep us and the pipes warm. With a pair of 6V batteries I did have to run the generator each day, but it wasn't required overnight other than the night we kept the boot dryers on all night.

I have added a register to the rear of the camper and modified the feed for the bathroom/bedroom, but overall it’s hard to complain about ORV construction. Even the bow storage, which isn't directly headed, stayed above freezing as that's where I keep extra water when it's cold.

Zero issues with condensation. We do run a dehumidifier, but didn't even pull 1/2 cup of water from the air for the entire weekend. The only time there was condensation on the windows was when we had the blinds closed for overnight insulation. As soon as we opened them in the morning the condensation would thaw and be gone. We do leave the dehumidifier running in the trailer for a while after getting back from a cold weather trip.

In the summer it does well too, but does only have a single 13.5K BTU A/C so shade is helpful.

This is our trailer.

https://www.castlecountryrv.com/product/used-2011-outdoors-rv-wind-river-275sbs-1116759-5

 

[Shadrach]

Thank You. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Now to find the floor plan I like .

 

[SSage]

I liked my Arctic Fox rig, I regret trading it in. Mine was very warm compared to my other RV's. I used much less propane with the Arctic Fox living in it year round. I wanted something bigger and wish I stayed small after the "upgrade". Nash / Arctic Fox would be my choice in 4 season campers. The KZ Escalade and the KZ Sportsman could be optioned out for cold weather too. I owned a Sportsman Toy Hauler with all the cold weather options. But the slides lost a lot of heat. I like minimal or zero slide outs now. I spend most of my time outside anyway. My current 5th wheel has no slides at all, its down right cozy for a 3 season. Floor gets cold though, I miss the enclosed belly!

 

[Tuesdak]

A good example of what I am talking about is the 27-5L made by Northwoods.

I own one ... before they re-imagined what numbers mean and made it wider and longer. Made of wood not the aluminum. On the grades it's heavy. Reach for the tuner heavy. Eventually back off due to reaching the limits of the cooling system on the 2003 I had heavy.

The couch, actually not too bad comfort vs. some others, was the first thing tossed out the door. Cloth recliners take it's place. Feet up is 1000 times better.

Slides will eventually make you pay for the space they give you.

I don't plan on going out when it is below freezing temps.

Yeah well good luck with that. The weather isn't exactly predictable, vacation time off requests may take longer than weather can be forecast, and you are either going weather be dammed or missing out.

Woke up at 20F and waited for it to warm up outside. Altitude and clear sky overnight cool things off fast! Just fine 74F inside. Pushed the button and made coffee on generator. I no longer run straight 30 oil in the generator due to cold snap surprises like that. It simply doesn't get below 32F here long enough to care, but, outside of "home" it does.

The A/C is another matter with a 13.5K BTU unit I am too cheap to replace with a 15K. 80F inside in 117F heat no shade isn't bad.

Fixed the A/C ducting to get that. Moved the power converter close to the AGM batteries to get the most out of Generator runtime limited by campground allowed hours. Like 2 hours in AM and 2 hours in PM. Use the AM gen time to bulk charge and solar to top off.

If I did it over I would do 50A service with two A/C units. 30A is limiting what I can run at once esp. with the A/C running. The converter power draw charging low batteries I forgot about and tripped the 30A breaker.

Like you I planned for it's main use for different weather aka "Get out of the heat." It's done some of that, but, had to make do in extreme heat more than I ever imagined.
Simply prepare for it say with heated insulated hoses and don't let weather decide if you can use it or not.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Honestly IMHO there is no true all season RV. I have a 2016 Mobile Suites with three AC's that are very thirsty keeping it comfortable in 100+ temps. I have Electric Cheap heat added to my furnace plenum and running electric it runs a lot in the 20's. I have 3 1/4" walls and 8-10" insulation in the floor and ceiling. So sure it can keep it comfortable but at a LARGE cost!

 

[Shadrach]

I understand it is after all an RV not a house. My problem has never been too much heat. I'm concerned about keep the heat In not Out. I don't see many days above 90*F when and where I go. It's more the 30*F nights that I'm concerned about.

 

[AH64ID]

Honestly IMHO there is no true all season RV. I have a 2016 Mobile Suites with three AC's that are very thirsty keeping it comfortable in 100+ temps. I have Electric Cheap heat added to my furnace plenum and running electric it runs a lot in the 20's. I have 3 1/4" walls and 8-10" insulation in the floor and ceiling. So sure it can keep it comfortable but at a LARGE cost!

Same thing is true with homes, they can survive hot/cold but it costs more. Even the best insulated homes cost more
to heat/cool in extreme temps.

A 4 season RV can handle the heat/cold and a 3 season cannot. No matter what you throw at some trailers they will freeze up at 30°, while others are good below 0°.

A 4 season RV is the equivalent of a well insulated home, but it’s nothing magical.

 

[Cummins12V98]

No way would I put my high quality so called four season RV in the same category as a well insulated home. My electric bill was $450 to cool my RV for 3 weeks at temps over 100 with several at 113.

My friends crappy 10x40 park model with one modern mini split his bill for the whole month was $175.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Ozymandias]

Most reasonable sized overland rigs are true 4-season vehicles. For example Earthroamer.
Mine too.
2" composite walls keep out the cold, a Diesel furnace with 4kw generates unlimited heat and all water and battery's are inside.
It's actually pretty easy to build a true 4-season rig.

 

[AH64ID]

No way would I put my high quality so called four season RV in the same category as a well insulated home. My electric bill was $450 to cool my RV for 3 weeks at temps over 100 with several at 113.

My friends crappy 10x40 park model with one modern mini split his bill for the whole month was $175.

Just my thoughts.

You’re missing the point. A well insulated home is like a 4 season camper, and so-so insulated home is like a 3 season camper.

I can keep my smaller 5th wheel cool for weeks of 90’s+ for a bit less than $100… maybe yours isn’t as insulated as you think. It is a dark color thou, so that may not be helping any. Then again, imagine what it would have cost if it was a 3 season camper.

 

[Tuesdak]

Then again, imagine what it would have cost if it was a 3 season camper.

Same I bet. Three A/C units using 2KW each going 24X7 can only use so much power. It just gets warmer in the RV.

It occurred to me this year how small the windows are in my 2003 Arctic Fox. Windows being a major heat loss or load.

I found that I can get 24 hours of generator runtime on one 40LB propane tank in hot weather running the A/C.

Heated water tanks was my understanding as a major difference the 4 season RV's have.

 

[SnoKing]

Heated water tanks was my understanding as a major difference the 4 season RV's have.

Enclosed/insulated belly also!

I have a 2017 Big Horn BH 3575 Elite and it has this sticker next to the entry door. It is my summer home now. We did full time in it for almost two years.

Spyder car port:

 

[AH64ID]

Same I bet. Three A/C units using 2KW each going 24X7 can only use so much power. It just gets warmer in the RV.

You’re assuming the A/C units don’t ever cycle in a 4 season RV, which is doubtful with 3 units.

Heated water tanks was my understanding as a major difference the 4 season RV's have.

The entire underbelly is enclosed and heated, as well as better insulation in the walls and ceiling.

Some 4 season RV’s have single pane windows and some have dual. Dual pane windows make a huge difference and I’ll never own a camper with single pane windows again.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My DRV has R29 floor, R25 roof and R16 walls along with insulated windows.

 

[Tuesdak]

You’re assuming the A/C units don’t ever cycle in a 4 season RV, which is doubtful with 3 units.

In the context of extreme hot weather 117F... Closer to what happened this past summer than not. Record electric demand here because, unusual this year, it didn't cool down as much overnight. So the RV A/C didn't get much of a break overnight. My electric use on the house was 30% to 50% higher than past years just like others in the area I compare too. I had tried out a "better" RV A/C air filter and then ran without one for a couple days. ( Filtertime brand ) It made a measurable temperature difference, warmer, due to the filter's restriction. Like 78F without and 81F with the filter: afternoon temp in the RV.