4 Season RV

[Cummins12V98]

In the context of extreme hot weather 117F... Closer to what happened this past summer than not. Record electric demand here because, unusual this year, it didn't cool down as much overnight. So the RV A/C didn't get much of a break overnight. My electric use on the house was 30% to 50% higher than past years just like others in the area I compare too. I had tried out a "better" RV A/C air filter and then ran without one for a couple days. ( Filtertime brand ) It made a measurable temperature difference, warmer, due to the filter's restriction. Like 78F without and 81F with the filter: afternoon temp in the RV.

View attachment 136059

If you have room and on 110 add a mini split it will pay for its self fAST.

 

[AnonEd]

Don't know if they made anything that size but in that era New Horizons made some decent stuff (nothing run inside outer walls to compromise insulation, etc.), with weight and price to go with it.

 

[slowmover]

Maybe I should clarify. I live in Canada ( think Jasper and Banff Alberta ) and while RV season is short for us ( end of May to end of Sept usually ) it can get cold in the mountains. I have woken up to Snow in the middle of Aug at 6000 feet elevation. I want a 4 seasons ( or in my case really a 3 seasons ) trailer so I am more comfortable while sleeping. When you roll over in the night and your head goes on a different part of the pillow and it wakes you up because it is colder that the part you were just on it means your trailer isn't insulated enough. I don't plan on going out when it is below freezing temps. Even with 2 6 volts and 2 solar panels that heater draws a lot of power if you have to use it all night long. If I keep the thermostat set to say 15*C or 60*F and it it drops colder than that I use a lot of battery up. I dry camp a lot so no power to plug in and I can't run a genset all night long. With a better insulated trailer it will keep warmer inside while using less power and LPG.

I am familiar with the Nash and Arctic Fox but what else is out there? As I said I only want a 26-28 footer, fifth wheel and not super heavy ( 8-12l lbs ) . We used to have a company in Alberta that made a trailer called a Roughneck and it was good to -40. It was designed to the oil patch as an office/ living quarters unit. They didn't have a slide on them as they were too hard to seal up and were usually about 30' long. You could even get them with a pintle hitch and a "cargo tray" on the back that would hold 4 100 lb LP bottles on it.

Avoidance of condensation is pretty much down to a wood stove for off-grid. Other RV’ers have retrofitted marine quality stoves as this is dry heat.

You may find a camper which suits you — outside the XHD insulation idea — so keep a retrofit in mind. You aren’t breaking new ground in this.

.

 

[AH64ID]

Avoidance of condensation is pretty much down to a wood stove for off-grid. Other RV’ers have retrofitted marine quality stoves as this is dry heat.

You may find a camper which suits you — outside the XHD insulation idea — so keep a retrofit in mind. You aren’t breaking new ground in this.

.

Aside from some catalytic heater almost all heat is a dry heat. The leading cause of condensation on a trailer is temperature differential.

 

[petersonj]

The leading cause of condensation on a trailer is temperature differential.

I would say two leading causes - and they work together. Temperature differential, as you mentioned, and very high dew points resulting in very high humidity that can be reached quickly when cooking, using the shower, or bringing in wet clothes, etc. Compared to a house, the inside of a trailer (even a large trailer) does not have near the volume of air to hold water vapor and still remain at a low to mid humidity.

- John

 

[Road Dog]

When you burn propane you get carbon dioxide and water vapour. My propane furnace draws outside air and vents to the outside so it doesn't affect the inside air. Same for the propane fridge. The cooktop and stove are a different story - all the water vapour (and CO2) stays inside. Catalytic heaters are the same - the water vapour and CO2 stay inside (and not allowed in Canada).

I'm seeing more and more travel trailer that have a winter package. Usually it's a trailer with slides so there's a basement and the tanks and plumbing are in a heated space. It's important that the cupboards and closets with plumbing have vents to the heated interior.

 

[slowmover]

Aside from some catalytic heater almost all heat is a dry heat. The leading cause of condensation on a trailer is temperature differential.

No, propane use is a problem adding to condensation by people, animals, cook/bathe, etc.

MOISTURE METER needed by owners of square boxes with rubber roofs & wood framing.

Start poking. Every foot of floor along wall.

The reason these things are in the landfill in a dozen years.

 

[AH64ID]

No, propane use is a problem adding to condensation by people, animals, cook/bathe, etc.

How does a propane furnace add to the moisture?

 

[GAmes]

The cooktop and stove are a different story - all the water vapour (and CO2) stays inside.

You don't run a fan, either ceiling or stove hood, and crack a window when the stove or oven is lit?

 

[AH64ID]

You don't run a fan, either ceiling or stove hood, and crack a window when the stove or oven is lit?

At best I think fans only pull 20-30% of the stove top air out, but they are better than nothing.

 

[SnoKing]

OK, I was wrong about the propane furnace, here is a wright up.

https://rvchronicle.com/heaters-and-furnaces-add-moisture/

 

[AH64ID]

OK, I was wrong about the propane furnace, here is a wright up.

https://rvchronicle.com/heaters-and-furnaces-add-moisture/

Pretty common for people to think they add moisture, which is likely why @slowmover is also making his comments about propane furnaces. Bottom line is they don’t add any moisture to the interior of a trailer when working properly.

 

[slowmover]

When one is off-grid, propane is the single energy source as self-sufficiency is defined. (Solar adds little, and gensets aren’t self-containment unless built-in with fuel tank).

Propane does it all: heat, cook, hot water, lighting.
Battery provides minimum light plus furnace fan.

To dry the interior one needs a wood stove.

Interior condensation doesn’t need RV use to occur. At any season it’s a possibility depending on locale.

Keeping humidity from 30-50% then becomes a problem while off-grid.

A large free-standing dehumidifier is one of the best additions one can make for use while on the grid.. Summer or winter use when folks are aboard, door being opened and closed and A/C or furnace in use the dehumidifier cuts the workload for those appliances on top of lowering the water vapor that permeates every closet, cabinet or storage space.

Once parked off grid, it’s winter substitute is a wood stove.

“Warm” is great. But the measure is Warm and Dry.

Cook & bathe then as you will. Live life.

Beyond safety reasons RVs don’t come with them, one expects RV owners to have the brains to leave the extra-cold or extra-hot environments.

No thermal mass is what one gives up for mobility.

The alternative is building a garage-like structure to house the RV as was/is seen in the Bakken to create the thermal mass.
.

 

[CVR222NV]

I have a 2015 26' Timberline Range Camp trailer Highlander model which has a wood burning stove. This trailer is definitely a 4 season trailer although I have yet to camp in a winter setting and use the wood burning stove. I have plans to do that soon. The company is now called Western Range Camps and the model of my trailer is closest to the Teton:

Teton Archives - Western Range Camps

 

[SnoKing]

I have a 2015 26' Timberline Range Camp trailer Highlander model which has a wood burning stove. This trailer is definitely a 4 season trailer although I have yet to camp in a winter setting and use the wood burning stove. I have plans to do that soon. The company is now called Western Range Camps and the model of my trailer is closest to the Teton:

Teton Archives - Western Range Camps

https://www.recreationalvehiclemark...-Travel-Trailer-in-Colorado-CO-121396773.html

 

[CVR222NV]

https://www.recreationalvehiclemark...-Travel-Trailer-in-Colorado-CO-121396773.html

That one is identical to mine!

 

[Dl5treez]

I could be wrong, probably am wrong, and guarantee either way someone will tell me I'm wrong. That said, I lived full time (spring summer fall winter) in a RV off and on for about 5 years as a tramp powerline worker. Mostly in parks, but sometimes in makeshift parks that were set up in open spaces and electricity, water, and sewer were via generator, tanks with pumps, and weekly visits by the poop pumper trucks.

By and large I did it with a 2013 Arctic Fox 25Y bumper pull and a 1997 Alpenlite Riviera 29 5th wheel.

The 25Y was nice but the big picture window out back was not fun during the dead of winter as it is a big heat sucker upper and ended up getting blocked off by a thermal blanket so I missed the pretty snow scenery. Some days it wasn't below freezing and it could come down to reveal winter wonderland. Otherwise it was fine--I don't know the specifics as to what makes the Arctic Fox trailers so good at handling true winter temps in places like North/South Dakota, Wyoming, and eastern Montana but the water tank and plumbing are ran inside the trailer for the most part and the roof and bottom are insulated well. I did build my own skirting around the outside which is nice both for winter heat retention and summer heat avoidance.

The Alpenlite as well did great, just bigger space so more expensive to heat and cool. Again, with the big picture window at the back, and I built skirting. I made both trailer's skirts the same, out of plywood. I still firmly believe Alpenlite manufactured the 'best' 5th wheel travel trailer you could buy, pre 2000. Even today they are better than most still after 20+ years. I don't have a need for the 5th wheel but I'd highly recommend looking for a well preserved Alpenlite if you're in the market. I have no affiliation to this one, just found it on a google search, but it's near identical to what I had, just a 2000 instead of a 1997.
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2000-Alpenlite-M-29RK-RIVIERA---5023782293?cmp=rvreviews-listing

Honestly, if my coworkers practiced a little proactiveness, all the RVs seemed to do ok. The biggest issue with most of the ones that failed was poor insulation underneath, exposed water lines and water tanks, and terrible windows. The folks who sealed them up ended up with ice on the insides and a lot of moisture. The Fox and the Alpenlite I was able to run my "fantastic fans" quite a bit and circulate the air, and I used a dehumidifier. Honestly, in the 2 years with the Alpenlite and the 3 years with the Arctic Fox I had zero winter time related failures of anything. No leaks either but I gave them a thorough inspection each spring and fall, and touched up things that looked questionable.

Full disclosure I did not really care what my power bills were as my per diem was more than covering my pad rent and whatever my power bill was what it was. Between 60-175 a month at most places I stayed at was the norm for electricity and I ran larger propane tanks but rarely used them, just ran the electric side mostly since we were normally on full hookup.

A couple brands I remember that were doing well aside from aforementioned Nash/Fox/Outdoors RV and my Alpenlite were Grand Design, Nu-Wa Hitchhikers, Dutchmen, Airstream (and the variants like Avion, etc) and honestly once the bugs all got worked out a buddy had great luck with his Keystone Montana. By and large though most people did say that my Arctic Fox seemed the most comfortable and I'm a simple jack type, so that's where I sort of start and stop when shopping for a towable RV anymore.

I will say if you can make it work that a motorhome is a better winter time RV than anything you tow behind you. For various reasons, a major one being the weight is not as much of an issue so they can build with thicker walls and materials, more insulation, and heavier duty components.

The 25Y is listed dry weight as 6,640 lbs. I know from factual usage experience and ownership since 2013 that mine actually weighs 7,020 and full of stuff to live full time pulls down the road around 9,000-9,200. My 4wd F-550 shop truck feels it and both my Ram 2500 and OBS F-series aren't exactly happy it's back there.

The Alpenlite was listed at 9,043 lbs dry but actually weighed in at 9,500 and fully loaded with more crap--bigger space more crap--it was an 11,000 lb trailer...

..but again remember I'm full time so there are tools, mountain bikes, cases of beer, heavier than normal RV furniture, kayaks, TDR magazines, Geno's maintenance kits, dead hookers in the closet, shovels, etc.

That said, they all suck compared to even a crappy house. ATCO shacks are much better.