Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting 45/70

[GHarman]

More OUTSTANDING pictures, BIG!

The factory Remington ammo is pretty anemic. However, it is still powerful enough to give you an idea of how the carbine will handle. Firing from the shoulder, racking out the empty and jacking another one in the chamber without removing the carbine from your shoulder, is good practice. Target acquisition, sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control and squeeze, culminating in fast, accurate fire is what you are preparing for. Hope it is exactly what the Dr. ordered! GregH

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

As noted, you can handload the . 45/70 anywhere from trapdoor Springfield mild (1300 fps) to almost . 458 mag strong (around 2000 fps) using guidance from the reloading manuals specific for the Marlin. If you want more rounds, and a bit more velocity for a given load, get the Cowboy with octagonal 26" barrel and 9 shot magazine.

 

[BIGNASTY]

J Donnelly I have been looking thru several reloading manuals at different loads mild to wild and your 100% correct. It is a more versatile cartridge than I ever imagined. The Gun store that I bought the Marlin sell quite a few of these and has a reloading guide just for the Marlin's. I purchased the Guide model because of the short barrel. The wife and I horse pack ( the mule's get mad when I dont mention them)LOL and the rifle is just for a defence app. I REALLY hope I never have to use it on ANY kind of game but it very reassuring to know that it is up to the task if needed. Greg Harman and I have discussed this until im sure he's fed up with me and with his help im sure that im well armed. I could think of allot of ways of leaving this world that would be WORSE than a bear attack but it would be a VERY close second. The longer barrel is not that big of a deal except that it would take more of a scabbard on the mule but your correct the extra rounds would be nice. I ran into a Grizzle Last year hunting and have been on a quest to find something that I could be confident that would at least make MR BEAR think twice about leaving me as bear poop on the side of the trail. At least now im back to sleeping and feeling more at ease in the mountains. After all that's why I escaped CA and came to MT

 

[GHarman]

Rifles and Good Discussions!

BIG, Never fed up! Love to talk almost as much as I love to shoot!. I just happen to have more than a passing fancy with the . 45/70. Over the years I've owned and shot and rebuilt 3-1873 Springfields, an 1884 Springfield(1973 with 1884 upgrades), 2-1895 Marlins, an 1874 Sharps Sporting Rifle, and the cannon of them all, a Ruger #1 single shot. I presently have an 1885 Browning(Winchester clone), BPCR single shot. (It will also handle smokeless loads, similar to the Ruger)

While none are considered the most powerful rifles available, they all are more than adequate of any animal in North America. Always with proper shot placement!

I have mentioned this before. The . 45/70, loaded with a 400 Gr. Speer, driven at a modest 1800 FPS (from a Marlin 1895) completely penetrated a cow elk, lengthwise at 175 yards! I hit her in the chest, standing face on. The bullet exited her groin, inside one leg! That, my friends is horsepower!

With the load development that has been done in the last 10 years for this cartridge, it is plainly an excellent choice for a big game, brush popper and Bear stopper.

What is really interesting is the ballistics of the old original Black Powder service load!!!

The . 45/70/500 US Government;

After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the . 45-70 cartridge was produced, the . 45-70-500, which fired a heavier 500 grain (32. 5 g) bullet. The heavier 500-grain (32 g) bullet produced significantly superior ballistics, and could reach ranges of 3,350 yards (3,120 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the . 45-70-405. While the effective range of the . 45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at roughly a 30 degree angle, penetrating 3 one inch (2. 5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach*. It was hoped the longer range of the . 45-70-500 would allow effective volleyed fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire. [5

Thats some incredible flight time! GregH

 

[The patriot]

Yea, with mortar like trajectories. :-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

I can start shooting at long range IT'S THE LAST 20 TO 30 YARD'S THAT INTREST ME MOST

 

[GHarman]

Yea, with mortar like trajectories. :-laf

Exactly, Patriot! Your scorer knows your shooting a . 45/70 cause the hits on target are vertical tears in the paper! Have you ever tried to put a . 30 caliber spotter disc in a vertical tear that is . 45" wide:-laf! A 30* angle at 2 miles is pretty dang flat shooting for a black powder round. I believe it beats out(distance) the G. I. . 30 M-2 round, if I remember correctly.
GregH

 

[The patriot]

I've been actually looking at a Lee mold for a 500 Gr . 458 gas checked flat nose bullet.

I remember reading about the 30 cal tests in Hatchers book. ?

I believe they did those tests on Daytona beach IIRC. It's been at least 20 years since I last paged through that one.



Sandy hook isnt too far from me. Sea girt (where they held the national matches before camp perry) is also a stones throw from me.

Hard to believe..... :{

 

[GHarman]

What is the groove diameter of your barrel. Slug it. I have not found a gas check that will make groove diameter in any . 45/70 I have cast bullets for! Nominal is . 458" Most modern . 45/70's are . 459". The throat is usually . 460". That being said, IMHO, of course! Try a plain based bullet with a proper sized HDPE wad at least 1/16"(. 0625") in thickness. You can make your own with a plug cutter and a drill press out of a sheet of HDPE. A Gentleman named Merrill Martin did an extensive study on "Poly Wads" and (along with moly coating) and started a company called NECO. It was all documented in "Precision Shooting Magazine", many years ago. His conclusion was that the HDPE wads were just as effective at stopping gas cutting and blow by as properly fitted copper gas checks! Copper gas checks are quite a bit more expensive than the were a few years back. $37. 99/1000 @ MidwayUSA! The . 45 Hornady gas checks I presently have are not . 459". They will work for . 452" Revolver bullets but not the rifle. Just some thoughts. I may be unlimbering the BPCR after hunting season. Gonna shoot some loads like that, my-own-self! Greg

 

[The patriot]

Thanks GH!

I used to get Precision Shooting along with Tactical marksman (long out of print).

Both were GREAT sources of info.

How are the poly wads held on. Epoxy?

I planned on just shooting the 500's out of the mold assuming they came out good enough. I was going to press the GC's on with a regular old Palmgren press. :-laf

I obviously dont expect sub MOA accuracy.

 

[GHarman]

Patriot, You can seat them with the bullet. Or you can make a wad seater and do it in a separate step. Just make sure the wad is flat and not tilted. If they are the correct diameter, it will be an interference fit.

If you use the GC bullet, as cast it may be similar to a "boat tail" with an unsupported section around the circumference of the groove diameter. That may cause you some problems. If you havent bought a mould as yet, I would go with the plain based bullet with the poly wads. That will get you a gas seal, for sure. However, it is important to slug the barrel to get the correct groove diameter. A chamber cast works if you have a throat(Ball Seat) for jacketed bullets. The largest of the diameters (throat or Groove diameter) works best.

Lyman Moly lube for higher velocities and high chamber pressures.

If everything else is equal. The cast bullet is the tricky part. Not to hard, not to soft with no air bubbles and flat bases(the most important). I use wheel weights tempered with some tin from plumber joints(lead pipe. . Antimony is good for hard bullets, but not to much. or they become brittle and shatter on a hard target. . I kinda like makin lead pies:-laf!

From what are you going to be launching that 500 Gr. slug? Sounds like a shoulder buster:-laf!

Have a great time! Let us know what you are doing and your results! Its always good to document it in case another shooter wants to try it out! GregH

 

[The patriot]

Thanks Greg.

I may never do it with the 500's, but I have thought about it from time to time. :-laf



I have plenty factory 405's and I'm sure they'll be fine on whatever I decide to shoot with them.