4500 - Trip to Canada

[Wiredawg]

All,



My wife and I left San Antonio Sunday, Sep 4. I reprogrammed the ECM w/ Smarty 6. 7 to level 5, which adds about 90HP. The truck pulls awsomely in tow/haul mode, about 29K lbs w/ Travel Supreme 5er in tow. I'm getting 9. 1 mpg. We went over that magical 20K on the clock, where it seems all Cummins engines (that I've owned at least) seem to break in. I'm gettin about the same fuel mileage as my former tow vehicle '02 3500, but have way more usable power than it does. EGTs are no problem, like they were with the 3500. I've never gone over 1,300' EGT pulling steep grade.



I'm seeing 13. 4mpg empty, which for a 12K lb truck, is great. I believe the 6. 7L Cummins could very well be the best motor built yet. I know the transmission is a significant contributor for this excellent towing performance and fuel economy. At 70 MPH, I'm seeing about 2,600 rpm, which is my heavy towing sweet spot. I feel the great combination of torque and horsepower as I climb hills and travel the level areas. I could not be happier.



On the trip, I was running w/ a Ford Scorpian pulling a Mobile Suite that I believe is comparable weight with my Travel Supreme. I passed him going up the hills w/ cruise set on 70mph and he would pass me going down hill. We did this about 100 miles in Tennessee. I probably had about 4K lbs more in truck weight. I think the Ford driver was a little frustrated.



A guy I work w/ at work has a new Ford 250 4x4. We went to lunch in my 4500 about a week before starting this trip and he commented how much smoother my transmission shifted than his.



Another note is the Smarty 6. 7 really wakes up this motor and fully utilizes its potential. The level 5 setting is the highest I plan on programming this motor. And in the spirit of honesty, I tell the dealer whenever I take the truck in for my free lube/oil change, I ask the dealer if they plan on hookin up thier scanner as I have a programmer installed w/ moderate power added and reprogrammed speed limiter setting. We appreciate each other's honesty and have a great relationship.



I will report more info while on the trip and when done.



Happy Trails,



Wiredawg

 

[Bob4x4]

The 6. 7 is one torquey mutha... ... ... ... add a Smarty and Oo.

 

[AH64ID]

Great report!

 

[Wiredawg]

Trip Over - Happy With Results!

All,



Trip was fantastic. Avg mpg 8. 9; Cruise set at 72 mph, about 2550 rpm in tow/haul; did not lose any speed on any grades encountered. transmission temp never exceeded 180' w/ outside temps of 103'.



Highly recommend using tow/haul when towing heavy loads. Don't be concerned about running engine rpms of 2500+... remembe torque gets you moving hp keeps you moving. I also recommend the Smarty 6. 7 on level 5 all the time and mod the air box w/ 4" hole and piping in the bottom to bottom of truck. To give better ride, hang something heavy on the front, like my Brown's Welding brush/grill guard or the bumper combo.



I know Dodge is making 30K lb GVCWR 3500 trucks, but IMHO if you want a "serious" tow vehicle, get the long wheel base C&C w/ tow body. You can't beat 12K lb long tow vehicle for towing 15K + loads.



I may not be the best "test" guy. I thought about running through a tank (112gal) to see what 65MPH would affect economy, but only made it about 50 miles. For me, slightly higher than speedlimit is the way to go. There is serious protential to see 10+mpg driving slower.



Running solo, the 4500 will never be a drag racer, but I do hold my own playing w/ Fords, Chevys and yes, other Dodges.



Happy Trails, Wiredawg

 

[HBarlow]

Good report, Ron. Thanks. I think many who want a working truck but buy pickups should look a little closer at the cab and chassis Rams.

 

[AH64ID]

Great results, and sounds like a fun trip.

remember torque gets you moving hp keeps you moving.

So many people forget this... and its 110% true!

 

[Jim W]

Wiredawg,

I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Why did you chose prower level 5 over 3?

2. What were the rest of the settings such as torque management, VGT, timing and rail pressure settings?

3. What software version were you on S or ME and what up date such as SW23 or SW27 ?



The reason I have asked these questions is I just towed out west to Colorado and Wyoming. Did 4,050 mile round trip and average 13. 8MPG pulling my 5er. Total GCVW is 18,900 LBS (scaled). With a low of 11 and a high of 20 MPG's.

I was using a Smarty ME67 SW update 23ME, with all setting set at default except torque management which was set at 2. My average speed was 63 MPH, the only time I did the speed limit was with out the trailer attached.

Thanks

Jim W.

 

[Wiredawg]

Jim,



1. I used level 3 on my trip to May Madness and I calculated level 5 would put me a little over 700ftlbs, but short of the rated 740 ftlbs of the Aisin. My GCVW is a little over 29Klbs, so the extra HP/TQ performed better at same fuel mileage. I have to admit on trip out to May Madness, I did not run tow/haul loaded.

2. I did not adjust any of the custom settings.

3. SW S, ver 20. I may need to download the latest revision.



I actually believe I would see 10mpg if I ran 60 to 65 mph. Best empty mileage is 14. 2, I think. Fuel log not in front of me. My empty weight is a little over 12Klbs. I'm pretty much seeing the same mileage I got w/ the 3500 in my sig, which was weighing 26K lbs GCW.



Sounds like you are doing good. Smarty is best performance around, IMHO.



Take care, Wiredawg

 

[AH64ID]

Does the Smarty have different power levels for the C&C trucks than the pickups?

If they are the same, which I think they are, this is what I calculated. The C&C is rated at 305610 at the crank. The Smarty horesepower is at the ground and about 1/2 of the produced torque. SW3 will add 60/120 to the ground, and about 70/140 to the motor, putting you at approx 375/750. SW5 would be about 410/820 at the crank. That's assuming a 15% drivetrain loss for ground power to crank power.

 

[Jim W]

Wiredawg,



Thanks for the reply. In your reply, statement 3. You stated, SW S, ver 20. I may need to download the latest revision.

I am not sure if the C&C models are up to the latest software revision but some users who have downloaded ME25 have reported more smoke being generated. I do not know why but to me I do not need the additional smoke.



On another diesel site there has been a discussion about the latest SW program updates. See attached. Smarty S67 Ver 24. - Page 2 - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums



I am staying at ME23 for now, with no intention of updating. My truck is running great and have pass the 50K mark.

Jim W.

 

[Wiredawg]

I may be calculating wrong: I calculated 20% loss through the auto transmission . So, approx 244hp on the ground, stock. Then, I believe SW5 adds 90 hp, so looking at approx 334 on the ground. TQ, by my calculations, is 610 + 180 for 790 at the crank. I may be wrong calculating 20% loss of TQ also, but I did, so my calculation is about 670ftlbs.



I'm not 100% sure about my calculations or methodology, see pleas feel free to point out any error I may be making.



I downloaded SW 24 last night on my laptop... haven't updated my Smarty yet. I too am little concerned, as I am having good success w/ current SW20.



Please chime in.



Wiredawg

 

[AH64ID]

The trans will be rated for engine power correct? So you have to figure out what the Smarty is making at the crank.

I did my calc's with 15% loss, a 20% loss will bump that up.

On my 05 325/610 stock I figure I am about 450/875 at the crank on the Smarty Jr on SW3, which is very similar to SW5 on the Sr.

 

[RWood]

Just a question. Doesn't Smarty write a new horse power curve not add a certain percent? External boxes would add a certain percent. The only difference with the cab and chassis is the program, not mechanical. I would think if a pickup program is put in it would have the HP of a pickup.

 

[AH64ID]

They all essentially do the same thing, more duration and adjusted timing.

I don't know if a Smarty on a C&C makes it a p/u tune or not, good question for MADS. I do know that a Smarty makes an SO a HO.

 

[Wiredawg]

I e-mailed MADS simply asking do I add the HP/TQ improvements to the manufacturer rated numbers 305/610 or to a typical percentage less of stock at the rear wheels, based upon real stock rear-wheel HP/TQ? They told me I would have to dyno to determine. I started to reply I would not use the info to take action against them if I had a transmission problem/failure, but changed my mind.



As best I can tell I'm either 350hp/700 tq based upon 15% loss through drivetrain or 334hp/668tq based upon 20% loss through the driveline. Both cases, I calculated rwhp w/ loss, plus Smarty HP/TQ 90/180. Either way, I'm w/in the 730ftlb max tq of the Aisin. Truck seems to like it and so do I.



I'll be keeping her on the SW5 setting. BTW, I went head and updated the truck with the ver 24 update. I'll let everyone know if I have problems. I'll likely have transmission fluid changed at 25K or December. I'll ask the dealer techs if they are seeing any excessive wear or anything that would be attributable to running too much hp/tq.



Cheers, Wiredawg

 

[AH64ID]

Transmissions are rated on input power, not ground power. Based on Smarty numbers your are making about 410/820 at the crank on SW5 and 375/750 on SW3, assuming a 15% drivetrain loss.

Smarty has always said their numbers are dyno gains at the rear wheels. From what I have seen they are pretty accurate, at least SW1-SW7. Most stock trucks can't fuel SW9 properly.

It's your truck, and you can do what you want. . just wanted to make sure you were looking at it correctly.

 

[Wiredawg]

Hey, I'm not opposed to being shown I'm wrong! That's the kind of feedback I want. So, I'm going to set it back to SW3 tonight. Interesting reflection: I had calculated correctly to begin with and got sideways with my own calculations. Remember, me being right will only cost me a rebuild on an Aisin. Glad to be getting it right.



Thanks for hanging in there with me to get to ground truth.



Wiredawg

 

[AH64ID]

No problem, better to be safe!

SW3 is still going to be a pretty strong tow rig!

 

[RWood]

I talked with Bob Wagner yesterday. He said the power increase is as advertised. So I ordered one for my sterling.