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48RE + Exhaust Brake: Current Status

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Finally ready to install exhaust brake . Advice welcomed

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Carlton,



I still think DC ought to offer the 2004. 5 upgrades to 2003. 5 owners of the 48re, to maintain the original warranty with an e-brake. Otherwise those who really need or want the e-brake will just do it, and then go to ATS or someone for an after market modification with an after market transmission warranty. Even if the mods are $3-4,000 it should at least be offered from DC.
 
DBVZ,



If what I saw about the a new ECM for MY2004 is true then Carlton cost estimate maybe off. The new ECM looks like it has six sensors directly with the transmission and another ten input/outputs to and from the transmission as well. If all this is correct sounds let big changes in the transmission and the wiring harness plus an new ECM.
 
Information

From: Robert Patton



I have had occasion to discuss this subject with TDR writer, John Holmes. John and Polly own a 2003 truck with the 48RE transmission, and he is close to doing an exhaust brake installation on their truck.



As most of you know, John works at Caron Dodge in Carson City, NV. Their dealership has several excellent transmission technicians.



With this motivation to do an exhaust brake installation and the connections to get answers, I asked John to do some research. His comment, "Yea, I've got to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" 'cause it looks like I'm going to be my own warranty station if I install an exhaust brake on our '03 truck. "



John confirms that R. McCulloch is on the right track as he suspects that "the controlling software is the problem and that the combination isn't working in the manner that they want it to; it is not a seamless automatic interface. "



Further details on the controlling software: with the '03 trucks with the 47RE and '03. 5 trucks with the 48RE transmission, the transmission is controlled using Chrysler's powertrain control module (PCM). The '04 trucks will use the Cummins' engine control module (ECM) to control the transmission. As there will be changes to the engine to meet 1/1/04 emissions standards, Dodge and Cummins have targeted this date as the release of approval for exhaust brakes with automatic transmissions.



Effectively, this leaves '03/47RE, '03. 5/48RE and '04/48RE customers in limbo as to warranty approval. Speculation has it that the early '04/48RE customer (these trucks are equipped with the Cummins ECM) will be approved for exhaust brake usage, but it will require a reflash of the engine's ECM.



As stated, the '03/47RE and '03. 5/48RE are controlled with Chrysler's PCM. Countless hours were spent trying to make the PCM compatible with an exhaust brake in all driving conditions. Key words in the preceding sentence, "countless hours" and "all driving conditions. " As you read, these ’03 vehicles will not be approved for exhaust brake usage.



Those that have followed the use of exhaust brakes with automatic transmissions know that in order for an exhaust brake to be effective, the transmission has to be locked-up in the gear selected. Lock-up mode insures that there is a direct couple between the engine and the drive wheels, thus the engine rpm remains high and the brake is effective. More importantly, there is no internal slippage inside the torque converter. It is internal slippage (the shearing of the transmission fluid between the torque converter's impeller and turbine blades) that causes internal heat and ultimately damage to a torque converter.



With the understanding that there must be torque converter lock-up, owners with an '03/47RE or '03. 5/48RE transmission can see and feel the lock-up as the transmission shifts through the gears and goes into overdrive. As you reach approximately 50 – 55 miles per hour, watch the tachometer for the 150 - 200 rpm drop and the seat-of-the-pants acceleration as the transmission locks up in overdrive.



Overdrive lock-up is easy to identify. Third gear lock-up is much more subtle. Yet, each time you accelerate the transmission actually shifts five times: one, two, three, three-lock, overdrive, overdrive-lock. To feel the three to three-lock transition, one should hit the overdrive "off" button and take the truck slowly through the gears. See and feel the third gear lock up as you watch the tachometer for a subtle 50 - 100 rpm drop as third lock-up kicks in.



Now that you are familiar with lock-up, it is easy to watch the tachometer for transmission (third or overdrive) unlock. Unlock will occur at lower rpm engine goes to idle and there is no braking effect. This "remain in lock-up, then drop out of lock-up at a lower rpm" is a new feature that the '03/47RE and '03. 5/48RE customers have. Previously, owners that used exhaust brakes (albeit in unauthorized and warranty jeopardizing applications) had to manually lock-up the torque converter with the overly simplistic "mystery switch" or with some combination of aftermarket switches and hydraulic line pressure devices. Lock-up they did, and many have enjoyed their modified toys.



So, '03/47RE and '03. 5/48RE customers can enjoy automatic lock-up, in third and overdrive as the truck decelerates, but no authorization for exhaust brake usage - what gives?



To answer, "what gives?" readers should look back to R. McCulloch's comment, "My speculation is that the combination simply isn't working in the manner that they (Dodge and Cummins engineering) what it to: it isn't a seamless automatic interface. " A seamless interface would have the customer select "brake" mode and the transmission shift from overdrive (with the brake on) then shift to third (with brake on) and, possibly, shift to second (with brake on). Unfortunately, the engineers could not program the PCM to make the seamless downshifts combine with positive, without-a-doubt, torque converter lock-up. Hence, non-approval of the ‘03/47RE and, ‘04/48RE transmission applications.



Currently with my ‘03/47RE transmission and with Dodge's powertrain control, overdrive lock-up will slow the vehicle from 90+ mph down to 45 mph (1200 rpm), at which time the torque converter unlocks. If I leave the truck in third gear lock-up, the effective braking zone is from 83 mph (3400 rpm) to 23 mph (900 rpm). That is all I can do with my '03/47RE transmission.



John Holmes reports that his '03. 5/48RE transmission acts a little differently. It does not hold overdrive to 1200 rpm or third down to 900 rpm, but rather it kicks out of lock-up (in overdrive or third) at 1500 rpm. The 1500 rpm kick out leaves the vehicle at too high of a speed. Anticipation of a downhill situation is in order as one would want to have selected third (and feel the lock-up) and then turn on the brake as you crest and then decent the hill. Third will also unlock at 1500 rpm, so selection of second (and feel lock-up) is required in those tight, twisty applications.



What is a 2003 owner to do? Is an unauthorized, non-approved, "I am my own warranty station" installation something you feel comfortable doing?



Referencing my Issue 41 article, my answer is "yes. " The same answer holds true for John and his 2003. 5 truck. With knowledge of why the brake is not approved and the logic to work around the problem, I'll make my truck perform to suit my needs. The simple answer is to manually select a lower gear, make sure you feel lock-up, then apply the exhaust brake. If you have trouble feeling the subtle transition to lock-up or if the truck will not stay locked up, there are aftermarket products (line lock) that will increase the line pressure to insure torque converter clutch engagement.



That's all for now. I have the opportunity to drive a Chevy Duramax/Allison with a BD Exhaust Brake. It will make an interesting comparison to my 47RE and Pacbrake. I'll report the test drive later.
 
Our thanks also, Robert. We towed our trailer for a very short distance this last weekend, and did not feel comfortable using the Jake Brake without some further instruction--and you provided that. It raises another question, however--do you tow in OD with the 48RE? The manual says no, and we didn't. We were towing on flat or gentle hills--no real test of the truck or transmission. We wish we had held out for a 6 speed or a 2004--but now it is probably too late. I e-mailed your post to the dealer (fleet manager) from whom we bought the truck.
 
I just received official word from DaimlerChrysler engineering that an issue was identified on the 48RE transmissions that were tested with exhaust brakes. These were test vehicles that took a couple of trips out west (over the Rockies) and back. Apparently, the reverse loading from the exhaust brake caused unusually high thrust washer wear in at least one location.



At this point, I'm not sure exactly how this will effect plans to give warranty approval for the 48RE and the exhaust brake. I'm not sure if revised thrust washers or other changes will be designed and if they will be reto-fittable into existing transmissions.



I'll let you know as I find out more. At this point, I don't have a great deal of confidence that warranty approval of the 48RE and exhaust brake will happen by the end of this year.
 
I needed to bring this thread to the top so a fellow I am e-mailing back and forth with can find it. Couldn't get the whole URL to copy and paste. And... while on the subject of the 48RE and the Jake Brake, what can Dodge owners who have this combination installed by dealers do to get DC to acknowledge the problem and give us some kind of FACTORY warranty--or approve an after-market fix? We're the ones who have a written warranty by the dealer in the case of 48RE failure due to theuse of the Jake. That still doesn't make us 100% happy!
 
EXHAUST BRAKE

All this talk about exhaust brake,How about an engine brake,More effective and reliable and not to mention alot more stronger and more operator friendly.
 
Twest



I joined this forum around the same time I got the brake installed on the new truck.

It was only from reading this forum that I discovered it being unusuel

To answer your question



-problems?... ... I don't use this truck to pull heavy (just a snowmobile) but I've learned to use it only when in lock-up mode & seems to work ok. I must admit-- it is fun to play with. If I ever decide to use this truck for pulling my trailors I would certainly visit dtt or ats( even if I didn't have the brake installed). Besides the fun factor of playing with it comming off the freeway ramps & down canyon roads the main thing its used for is warming it up in the morning.



-concerns?... ... yes... ... if the transmission goes south Will dodge warranty it or is it going to be an issue between me & the dealer I bought it from????????



other than that it performs fine



db
 
Originally posted by djbobo

Twest



-concerns?... ... yes... ... if the transmission goes south Will dodge warranty it or is it going to be an issue between me & the dealer I bought it from????????





db



D/C hasn't approved the brake for the 48re yet and the exhaust brake was supposed to be one of the reasons for it's developement. It was never approved for the 47re and I would bet that any failure of the transmission would be between you and the dealer. Did you get anything in writting?



Dean
 
48RE Exhaust brake

Ok, I understand that the reason for not allowing the 2003. 5 to have an EX brake is due to a the torque converter not locking up. Or at least not long enough when the brake is on. This is in part due to the use of a PCM and not the ECM. IF line lock, like the one from Gale Banks, can lock the TC why doesn't DC approve of a vendors Torque Lock system? It is apparent that many companies sell a t-Lock to use with there exhaust brakes!
 
Re: 48RE Exhaust brake

Originally posted by ACerf

IF line lock, like the one from Gale Banks, can lock the TC why doesn't DC approve of a vendors Torque Lock system? It is apparent that many companies sell a t-Lock to use with there exhaust brakes!



There is a lot more to locking up the torque converter than sending a lock-up signal. During development, we datalogged a very frequent situation during exhaust braking where the lockup signal was sent but, due to the differential in engine speed and transmission speed, the converter would not actually lock. This is a very bad condition because the trans is devoting all fluid flow to build pressure to lock the torque converter. Until it locks, there is no cooling of the transmission fluid. This is OK for short periods of time but if the trans stays in the "lock commanded but still unlocked mode", it will get very, very hot inside the trans (not in the trans pan where the temp sensor is. )



Banks may offer a lockup kit, but I bet they don't offer any type of warranty on the transmission. Durability is not their primary goal. I have no authority to explain the DaimlerChrysler warranty, but I don't think you'll ever see a Banks-style lockup device approved.



As I stated previously, we are working to develop software that commands lockup in conditions where it can actually be achieved and also monitors various speed sensors to make sure lockup is achieved. There is currently no thrid-party lockup device that can do this or anything even close to this. I know that DaimlerChrysler engineering is also working to revise one or more thrust washers within the transmission to be sure that they can withstand the reverse-torque encountered during exhaust braking.



At some point, I hope to announce compatibility between the Jacobs E-Brake and the 48RE automatic transmission. We're still working on this. I'll let you know when I have more info.
 
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Re: EXHAUST BRAKE

Originally posted by TWest

All this talk about exhaust brake,How about an engine brake,More effective and reliable and not to mention alot more stronger and more operator friendly.





Also, much more expensive, more difficult to install, and also adds about 4" to engine height, which would keep it from fitting under the hood of a Ram.



I agree, an engine brake would be great, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
 
brake

Carlton,I talk to cummins they said room was a concern. Hopefully in future with the electronics they can make room for it. Certainly would solve the trans issues.
 
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