4bt cummins and trannys

[RDupree]

hi guys,just got in 2 4bt cummins engines with chrysler automatic trannys on them. if anybody wants a conversion package. -- email address removed --

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

gimme a call. 817 343 8666



Mark

 

[DKarvwnaris]

hi guys,just got in 2 4bt cummins engines with chrysler automatic trannys on them. if anybody wants a conversion package. -- email address removed --

Chrysler on a 4bt? is it the old 727 model? I haven't seen a Mopar auto on the 4b's in decades, That would be a nice setup for a roadrunner or Charger car. :-laf

 

[RDupree]

727?

i'm not sure they are 727's,but they are chrslers for sure,they have an e-brake on the tailhousing and a deep oil pan...

 

[av8r]

What are they out of? What were some OEM applications for the 4BT. I'd like to find one, I have evil thoughts of one in a CJ, or maybe an early Chevy Blazer 4x4. :-laf

 

[MMiller]

I've been thinkin of one in the wifes durango. But was stumped on OD trans options, manual of course, and then trying to mate to the transfer case.



Gotta wonder what auto those are. Maybe they could bolt up to a newer OD auto? Just reaching here.



Michael

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I've been thinkin of one in the wifes durango. But was stumped on OD trans options, manual of course, and then trying to mate to the transfer case.



Gotta wonder what auto those are. Maybe they could bolt up to a newer OD auto? Just reaching here.



Michael

Save yourself the headache and use the dodge bellhousing adapters for a 6bt behind the 4bt. Only thing I would be worried about is the vibration in a MRS. durango might land you at the dealer shop with her demanding trade in.

The nice part of using the 5. 9 adapters is the huge availability of them used, not to mention you can get up to date transmission parts and possibly a PCM to control it integrated into the durango harness with some work.





The 4bt's you'll find really easy to install in Jeeps and Gm trucks are found in the P-30 chassis trucks. They have GM engine mount brackets on them and are designed to fit right in a GM engine compartment with minimal fabrication. You can use the GM 4speeds or my preference, upgrade to the dodge adpaters and stick with readily available parts from the the engine back.

 

[RDupree]

chevy trannys

the dodge stuff is fine,but the chevy stuff is easy to get too!i have 3 engines,4bts 2 with the chrsler autos and 1 with the chevy bell housing for standard transmission...

 

[MMiller]

Do the 4 cylinders have balancer shafts like other 4 banger diesels? Would the vibes be worse then the ones my 93 emits? She has mentioned that if anything would happen to the 360 that she wants it diesel powered. I also would be intersted in almost doubling the current 15 mpg that it gets now.



Michael

 

[RDupree]

balance shafts

no balance shafts that i'm aware of. some small diesels have a balance shaft deal in the oil pumps. but i don't think its in the 4bts. .

 

[DKarvwnaris]

the dodge stuff is fine,but the chevy stuff is easy to get too!i have 3 engines,4bts 2 with the chrsler autos and 1 with the chevy bell housing for standard transmission...

The dodge adapters and transmission setups are going to be better hands down. #1 plus is the dodge flywheel/clutch verses the GM flywheel/ clutch which can be slipped with the 4b in stock power ratings. You can find a starter for a dodge pickup application alot easier than the gm application.

If you want to go with a non hydraulic clutch setup, or a GM automatic transmission, that is about the only plus for the GM bellhousing as they are designed for the old bodied ('73 to '87) chevy pickups. They are perfect for low HP setups like a Jeep CJ or maybe a K-5 blazer etc. I wouldn't tow anything more than a utility trailer with the GM clutch.

I have a few GM 4 speed setups complete from the engine adapter to the transmission if anyone has a need for them. I am not selling the engines, just what goes behind them, (starter, clutch, flywheel etc. ) I am going to be running big tires on my Jeep so I want the dodge flywheel setup, anybody want to trade adapters and flywheels? (NV 4500 dodge application only).

 

[DKarvwnaris]

no balance shafts that i'm aware of. some small diesels have a balance shaft deal in the oil pumps. but i don't think its in the 4bts. .

The automotive application 4bt's usually don't have the balancers in them, mainly due to the oil pan size required to install the balancers in them, they do shake and vibrate alot (more than a 5. 9 for sure), especially at low idle at a stop sign etc.

If you want a balancer kit, you can get them, but the oil pan will be lower the length of the engine, which can be a problem if you try to fit it in a small vehicles due to crossmembers etc. If you plan on putting one in a GM truck for example, you can lower the crossmember and it will fit, Best solution an IFS GM application is to put a lift kit in and drop the 4wd center section 6". Picture your 5. 9 with the oil pan just slightly higher than the oil sump all the way to the front of the block.

 

[RDupree]

starter/clutch

DK,i got a new starter off ebay really easily,seems like a common enough starter. and on the clutch,its a chevy clutch! which means you can call summit or whoever and get any kind of hi-performance clutch you want,for cheap! since the chevy adapters and flywheels are junk in your opinion i'll give you $50 for all of it! deal? haha!!check your facts!

 

[DKarvwnaris]

DK,i got a new starter off ebay really easily,seems like a common enough starter. and on the clutch,its a chevy clutch! which means you can call summit or whoever and get any kind of hi-performance clutch you want,for cheap! since the chevy adapters and flywheels are junk in your opinion i'll give you $50 for all of it! deal? haha!!check your facts!

Not trying to find fault with you bud, I have tried using the GM clutches for customers before, they didn't do so well. When I send a repowered truck out of my shop, I don't want to see it again unless it is for other upgrades. The dodge Clutches are what? 13" I believe? That a lot bigger than the 11" GM in the 4bt GM bellhousings I have found so far. Like I said, the GM parts are fine for a light duty truck like a 1/2 or 3/4 ton maybe, but most of us here know we are looking for more power that a light duty truck can produce, or we wouldn't be driving turned up diesel dodges or the likes. I am all for the GM auto's, the T-400 and its newer overdrive (4L80E I believe?) sibling have done much better than any dodge transmission until 2000 or so in my experience with repowers. The 727's we've put in a few trucks have come back to us within 6 months unlike the 400 autos we ordered custom built for the 4bt's and the 6bt's.

I am not into aftermarket parts as they usually require special order to get them, customers want a part they can pick up the same day, not a week or more when they need their trucks running mthe next morning. I try to make sure all driveline components of the repowers I do are available from NAPA, CAR QUEST, or a dealership for this reason. Dodge parts are the most readily available part you can find in this aspect, look at the # of cummins dodges on the road, lots of parts stores carry parts for them as they are in driveways of households throughout the nation.

I never said the GM adapter parts were junk, they have a perfectly good application in the vehicles they were designed for, which were bread trucks carrying little to no weight. That's a big difference from the typical Diesel pickup owner who expects to haul a trailer etc behind it. A jeep or Blazer is a great platform for the GM bellhousing sized flywheel. The torque of a cummins though, even a 4bt is beyond most 11" clutches. They will slip, that's a fact,under heavy loads when the turbo spools up.

On the side of a repower for fuel mileage, would you really want a 1 to 1 transmission in a vehicle like the GM manuals offer for use on the interstate? I wouldn't, an overdrive is a much desired choice for this, since the dodge NV-4500 trannies are available for about $2000. 00 (or less) on a crate, brand new with warranty? I see no reason to look any other way for a daily driver.

If you think this is not based on fact, what is your reasoning behind the GM parts? I've had a hard time finding the flywheels for the GM adapter on the cummins for less than the cost of a Dodge flywheel.

Ebay is not where I look for parts, it is not reliable, one week there are thousands available and the next, you can't find a single one. I have few customers who are willing to wait for an auction to end when they need their rig running again. Get the idea?

Don't take this as anything other than the experience we've had, Yours may be completely different. I've been repowering trucks now for nearly 12 years. My buddy who is doing Cummins repowers specifically has been doing them since 1987, (Mainly in GM platforms which he uses the dodge setups all the time now due to cost and the ease of customers to find parts when they are not near him.

 

[RDupree]

chevy stuff

ok (still a little dizzy from all that!)haha!

 

[DKarvwnaris]

haha!

Good luck in your project, I truely hope you have better luck than myself as well as the folks I personally know have tried your route.

 

[michigandon]

I am toying with the idea of acquiring an M1009 CUCV and replacing the boat anchor that's under the hood with a 4BT. I would like to hook it up to the original TH400 and run that in conjunction with the original 3:08 gears. Any reason why this would not work? I want to keep the installation as "bolt in" and straightforward as possible.



Don

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I am toying with the idea of acquiring an M1009 CUCV and replacing the boat anchor that's under the hood with a 4BT. I would like to hook it up to the original TH400 and run that in conjunction with the original 3:08 gears. Any reason why this would not work? I want to keep the installation as "bolt in" and straightforward as possible.



Don

You can get away with it, the RPM and vibration issues might be a concern though if you're planning to use the trucks current th400. There are shops that can build the 400 to work well with the 4bt, just remember, it depends on how well a job they do. The bread trucks had the 400 in them and it worked for quite a while, but they are lighweight aluminum bodies and carry fluffy bread loafs for cargo. Don't expect it to pull like a mule though and hold up, the torque of the 4bt's will disembowel the 400 under heavy to moderate oads. If you're planning to do it for mileage/ economy, go for it. I've seen a few daily drivers getting well over 20 MPG with that setup. The bread truck adapters and motor mounts will make it a near bolt in job other than Exhaust and a few lines/hoses. Use a '99 ford superduty electric vacuum pump for your heater controls, they work wonderful and are readily available. The 4bt's only have power steering pumps on them usually, no vacuum.

 

[michigandon]

Don't expect it to pull like a mule though and hold up, the torque of the 4bt's will disembowel the 400 under heavy to moderate loads. If you're planning to do it for mileage/ economy, go for it. I've seen a few daily drivers getting well over 20 MPG with that setup.

I plan to use the rig for commuting and light 'wheeling, as well as to pull my 16' boat.

Use a '99 ford superduty electric vacuum pump for your heater controls, they work wonderful and are readily available. The 4bt's only have power steering pumps on them usually, no vacuum.

That was another reason why I was thinking about an M1009, they use a hydroboost brake booster and not vacuum.



Do the K-Blazers have vacuum or cable actuated heater controls?



Don

 

[JUeckert]

The dodge adapters and transmission setups are going to be better hands down. #1 plus is the dodge flywheel/clutch verses the GM flywheel/ clutch which can be slipped with the 4b in stock power ratings. You can find a starter for a dodge pickup application alot easier than the gm application.

If you want to go with a non hydraulic clutch setup, or a GM automatic transmission, that is about the only plus for the GM bellhousing as they are designed for the old bodied ('73 to '87) chevy pickups. They are perfect for low HP setups like a Jeep CJ or maybe a K-5 blazer etc. I wouldn't tow anything more than a utility trailer with the GM clutch.

I have a few GM 4 speed setups complete from the engine adapter to the transmission if anyone has a need for them. I am not selling the engines, just what goes behind them, (starter, clutch, flywheel etc. ) I am going to be running big tires on my Jeep so I want the dodge flywheel setup, anybody want to trade adapters and flywheels? (NV 4500 dodge application only).

dk how much money for one of those gm 4 speed setups? i will be needing one very soon,please let me know...