4bt jeep swap, nv4500 vs. sm465

[Willys]

I'd originally written this in reply to LAlessi's 4bt eng. cpl/power thread but realised I was quickly becoming a thread hijacker... so here it is...



LAlessi, do you plan on increasing the power any? I've seen your video and shown quite a few people. That is one awesome truck. Do you have an idea of how much it cost to put the nv4500 in? I'm planning on stretching my cj-7 body to a scrambler length, and dropping the body on a wagoneer frame. I think the gearbox on the cummins/bread trucks is sm420 or sm465? So I'm hoping I can find a 4wd transmission/t-case that will bolt up and use the same clutch/PP/bellhousing. With 33" tires I should be maxed out around 70 mph with no overdrive(3. 54 axle). But I think I could get a ranger overdrive($1500) later on to add OD when money allows. This would get me 8 forward gears, and I think a 27% OD, slightly higher than the nv4500. Tops speed of 93 mph, cruising speed at 2000 rpm- 74 mph. Same as my Ram, intresting... I don't know if I'd toy with more power... have to wait and see how I like it I'm in the planning/tearing waggy to the frame/ parting out phase of the project. Anyone need a 401, T18 or d20?



So anyways... My question is, how much did the nv4500/tcase adapters etc cost? I'm trying to compare this to the cost of ranger overdrive/sm465/np205. (I don't think drivetrain length will matter much, they are near the same length and I'll have 110" wb to play with. )

Thanks,

Andy

oh and linkie to the gear calculator for future reference for others...

http://www.off-road.com/chevy/calc.html Oo.

 

[ezcurra]

I used to have a Ranger that I bought for my M715, but I decided that getting a NV4500 was a better option. With the Ranger, you add an extra element in the drivetrain to give you problems, makes your transmission/TC combo a bit longer than a NV4500/NP205, and I'm not sure what the extra rotating mass on the flywheel side will do to the transmission's synchros.

Another comment about the Ranger: I don't know what torque they are rated to, but my Ranger came with a couple of chipped teech, and it had been living behind a stock SBC, not a lot of torque.

NV4500's can be had for not a lot of money if you shop around. I found a rebuilt Dodge one for $850, which will be going into my M715, along with a Ford NP205. The Advance Adapters adapter to mate the 4500 and 205 was about $400 :{ I could have used a divorced TC setup like Lee did, but I'm turning my M715 into a 6x6 and I need a powertrain as short as possible to keep my middle driveshaft reasonably long.

 

[LAlessi]

I'd originally written this in reply to LAlessi's 4bt eng. cpl/power thread but realised I was quickly becoming a thread hijacker... so here it is...



LAlessi, do you plan on increasing the power any?

not at this time. i WAS going to buy a smaller turbo, but a few unexpected bills came up. i am still 105hp/265tq. have not turned the pump up at all.

I've seen your video and shown quite a few people. That is one awesome truck. Do you have an idea of how much it cost to put the nv4500 in?

thanks, i bougt two dodge 2wd nv4500's for 700. traded one for labor to rebuild mine

I'm planning on stretching my cj-7 body to a scrambler length, and dropping the body on a wagoneer frame. I think the gearbox on the cummins/bread trucks is sm420 or sm465?

sm456, or th400, i have heard of a rumored 5 speed version, but no idea if its urban legend. most of the ones coming out of frito lay here are th400's.....

So I'm hoping I can find a 4wd transmission/t-case that will bolt up and use the same clutch/PP/bellhousing. With 33" tires I should be maxed out around 70 mph with no overdrive(3. 54 axle). But I think I could get a ranger overdrive($1500) later on to add OD when money allows.

this guy, http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/ has been unsatisfied with his ranger, its for sale... . it didnt hold up that well, iirc.

This would get me 8 forward gears, and I think a 27% OD, slightly higher than the nv4500. Tops speed of 93 mph, cruising speed at 2000 rpm- 74 mph. Same as my Ram, intresting... I don't know if I'd toy with more power... have to wait and see how I like it I'm in the planning/tearing waggy to the frame/ parting out phase of the project. Anyone need a 401, T18 or d20?

im dropping to 35" tires, as im weraring my 450 EACH tires up at the tune of 1200miles a month. ill let you know how the performance increase is. i cannot get the truck above 75mph (mathmatically 84), so with 35's my top speed would be 75.....

So anyways... My question is, how much did the nv4500/tcase adapters etc cost? I'm trying to compare this to the cost of ranger overdrive/sm465/np205. (I don't think drivetrain length will matter much, they are near the same length and I'll have 110" wb to play with. )

Thanks,

Andy

oh and linkie to the gear calculator for future reference for others...

http://www.off-road.com/chevy/calc.html Oo.

i paid 125 for the sae#3 adapter (4bt) to nv4500 and the nv4500 bellhousing. flywheel and clutch 400



click the link below for a nice calculator

http://www.tlca.org/trails/techxchg/rpmtbls/index.html

this calculator is nice for a side by side of two different setups BUT the 2500rpm limit of the 4bt makes it limited

http://www.dfw-tx4wd.org/gears.html

 

[Willys]

Good points.

1. Do you know what your transmission/t-c/bellhousing length is?

2. What vehicles used the divorced np205 transfercase?

3. Have you considered buckshot mudders or something with a hard tread compound instead of the michelins?(of the same size instead of going smaller)

4. Can I drive your truck?

5. How many times a day do people ask that?

6. How many people per day beg for more details and insight on your conversion?

 

[LAlessi]

Good points.

1. Do you know what your transmission/t-c/bellhousing length is?

no idea

2. What vehicles used the divorced np205 transfercase?

dodge, chevy and ford... 70's year models iirc

3. Have you considered buckshot mudders or something with a hard tread compound instead of the michelins?(of the same size instead of going smaller)

the michelins are NOT wearing fast. they are just wearing. smaller tires makes it more streetable for towing, at the cost of mpg. i cannot afford a tow rig. so for 700 i can get 4 tires that are more streetable. neares decent wheeling is 4~10 hours away. i can drive on the bfg's and swap at the camp site

4. Can I drive your truck?

yes. anytime you are in the area you are welcome to, actually anyone can

5. How many times a day do people ask that?

not many. at 6'1 275 and me being a cop. . most dont bother!

6. How many people per day beg for more details and insight on your conversion?

not too many. 2-3 emails a day. 4 calls a week. same with you. ill give you my number, call anytime

 

[Willys]

"not many. at 6'1 275 and me being a cop. . most dont bother! "







If I'd known that I doubt woulda asked! :-laf



I wish I could get down to LA sometime. I do appreciate the offer and will probably be hounding you with more questions sooner than later but at the moment have run out of questions.



Ahh. . just thought of one... the transmission out of the bread truck, is it close or wide ratio(1st=granny gear)?

 

[LAlessi]

it was a sm465 in my truck. 1st granny.....

what part of GA? north or south??

 

[Willys]

35 miles south of Atlanta, Griffin.

 

[Willys]

When you changed from the Chevy to the Dodge bellhousing, were you able to keep the original starter?



Have you found a way to mount an air compressor? I saw a post of yours on one of the boards about mounting a pto driven compressor. I see your a/c compressor is below the alternator. I have seen different things mounted above the fuel pump on these engines... alternators... I think one I saw a few days ago on a bread truck was a vacuum pump driven by a v belt off the crank. I have a picture of an alternator above the fuel pump driven by the serpentine belt. I can't get it to attach right now though...

 

[Willys]

Heres a picture of that engine. I don't know whos truck this is, just ran across it on another forum. I believe it is a dakota.

 

[LAlessi]

id like to add another a/c compressor where the above alternator is... so i can run on board air. any idea where he got the bracket, or how to contact him?

 

[Willys]

I don't know the owner, just found the pic on another site... heres the link:

http://www.pavementsucks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=3028&highlight=4bt



I think it would be possible to add a york above the alternator where you have yours, if you could find a way to modify the heater hose mount. I know the 2nd generation dodge's have a different intake than what you have, I dont know if that is interchangeable or not. I mounted a york above the alternator on my 96 model. That was the only spot, with the huge p7100 pump on the drivers side. Heres a link to my post on the TDR:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112334



I just looked at pictures of your engine again, but I can't tell where the coolant lines come out of the engine. It looks like you'd have enough room to make a bracket like what I have. Can you get a few more shot of your engine mounting posted on your site? I haven't seen any since you had everything mounted and driving. Where is your air filter by the way? Most folks seem to use a cone mounted on the fender, you have that fording kit...





I imagine it wouldnt be hard to mount the york on the drivers side as well, the problem would be finding v pulleys(for the fan?) or a long enough serpentine belt and serpentine pulley for the york. Which brings up another question... are the serpentine belts 8 or 6 groove? If they're 6 I think I can get my hands on a few yorks with that pulley.



Andy