4BTA final adjustment

[dieselcruiserhead]

yep exactly about 65 at 1700-1800 rpms, about perfect...

 

[driverswanted]

Do you like your acceleration and towing characteristics in 5th around 65 mph? At what MPH do you feel you can shift into 5th with a heavy load on the back end and still have good pull-away? I should be at 1800 rpm/ 65 mph in 5th after I go to the 3. 55 gears and existing 31. 6" tires. Thinking of changing the tires for winter driving and going to a one inch smaller tire for 1900rpm @ 65 mph. About 80% of my driving is between 60-65 mph. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I think about 1800 rpms is where I am comfortable shifting but I am now finally turning it back up and getting reasonable power, it is a still slightly dinky but because the fuel is slightly down...



Question, can you post some pics of the HY35 possibly, maybe in a new thread? I also sent you an email back channel a couple days ago, wondering if it went through... ! Thanks - Andre

 

[driverswanted]

Can get some pics tonight Andre. This would also be my oportunity to check to see if the waste gate is full closed.

The 3. 55 gears and a new straight axle shaft are in now. Thanking my lucky stars that I did not have to play with different pinion spacers. The pinion/ring gears contact patern came out right the first time. Driving at 55-60 is so much nicer now in 5th gear. Accelerates nicely at those speeds now with my reduced fuel settings. EGT's cooler on the highway now too. Boost during normal highway speeds is around 5 psi and 7-8 psi on hills without acceleration; 8-10 with mild acceleration on a slight grade. When I go to a 30. 5" ( 1" shorter) tire it should have nice towing characteristics and better H. P.



BTW found I have a factory limited slip once I got in to the gear swap. Not an after market like I thought. I was misled because it has a much more agressive drive on both tires compared to my '91 one ton Ram. The '91 limited slip may have been worn.

 

[driverswanted]

Got my bad Hall effect sensor replaced and got my rpm readings back. Just for my own record here, my new numbers are:

For 5th Gear:55mph=1615rpm; 60 mph=1752rpm; 65mph=1906;70mph (not that I would go that fast--- :-laf )=2046rpm.

 

[Willys]

driverswanted,



I just read back through the entire thread, its cool seeing the changes you've made.



I was wondering if you ever found a new, non restrictive intercooler, or are you running the by-pass pipe you showed before? Is your engine the factory intercooled version? What is the cpl #(and factory hp and torque)? Sorry if you've already answered these, just didn't notice them in the thread... .



I'm looking for a parts wagoneer for my chassis. I've found a few with 3. 31 gears, but I'm really looking for a 3. 54 or lower(3. 92 and 4. 10 were also available in the years I'm trying to locate). I do have a 3. 54 geared rear axle that would probably be ok to use with the 3. 31 front if I'm not on hard ground while in 4wd.



I've spent quite a bit of time with the gear ratio calculators, but I'm still undecided on the right one. Given your personal experience with the 4bt, what ratio do y'all think would work best with a 33" rated(likely a 32") tire? (note- planning to use nv4500 trans)



Options are:

-look for set of axles with one of the following- 3. 54, 3. 92, 4. 10 (none of these appear to be real common. )

-buy the 3. 31's for sale locally, eventually regear to 3. 54 or 3. 73(lower would require a new carrier)



I may eventually move up to a 35", but 33" is so common and easy(cheaper) to come by... (already have a few sets of 33's waiting to me to get this thing going).



Thanks.

Andy



EDIT: I should note this is going to be a CJ7 stretched to scrambler length on a 80's wagoneer chassis- with 4bt, nv4500, np241. I'm trying to keep the weight in the 4k-4500 lbs range. I HOPE to be able to pull a 16', 3-4k lb trailer(loaded), up to 65 mph, locally. 80% of the driving will be 65 mph max, locally(55mph speed limit ), 20% long distance(reason for the overdrive). If I can't tow the trailer(for whatever reason), that's ok, I still have my CTD. I'll use the jeep for pulling a chipper as well. The likelyhood of towing in the 55-60 mph range is actually the biggest reason I'm considering the 3. 31's- with 32" tires, rpms at 60 mph are 2085- right at the start of the power band. Shifting to 5th while unloaded will put me at 1522(very close to my anemic 96 CTD with . 69 OD auto).

 

[driverswanted]

Thanks Andy. I'm glad to see that this is helping. My interest dialing into an efficient as possible vehicle that meets my needs with no excessive fuel consumption. I'm somewhat of a minimalist. I've owned VW diesels since 1981 and like their efficiency. I think excessive power beyond what is needed wastes fuel which tends to put money in the pockets of the middle east countries. It's always bothered me that Detroit has not produced a diesel for a 1/2 ton truck or an SUV that can tow something. O. K. I'm off the soap box now. As for the intercooler, I'd like to put a Dodge or a ferd intercooler in. My turbo is typically over 300 F when I 'm ready to shut it down when it's warm outside. I think an intercooler would help that.

I'm using 2 1/2" stainless tubing from the turbo to a 6BTA intake horn and heater grid. This also gives me winter engine warmup capabilities. My brother is designing the circuit board and some display LED's for the heater grids. I gave him the chart of time vs. temp that is programmed into the grid heater computer board of the early 6BTA engines. My engine was a non-intercooled cpl #585 with a supersession upgrade to 2,800 rpm. I think it's a cpl #767 now.

A 32" tire with a 3. 9 would give you close to 2,000 rpm at 65 mph. I like how the turbo response starts coming alive around 1950 rpm. I will be going to LT245/75-16, a 30. 5" tire that will increase my 65 mph readings from 1906 to 2,000rpm. I'm also hoping that the lighter tire with less rolling resistance will give me another mpg or two.

I said I was going to put a photo out here of how I did the remote oil filter. This is how I was able to put in a larger turbo like the HY35W. The picture is sort of dark so I thought I'd note some features on the remote adapter unit. I cut off the original filter flange and and screwed on this gasketed adapter I made on the mill. It has a 1/2" npt inlet and outlet on the bottom of the adapter angled at about 30 degrees off vertical. You can see the hex faced plugs I had temporarily screwed into the 1/2" ports. I think, with the 4" intake hose attached to the turbo, the hose clears the adapter by about 1/4". It also has two 1/4" side ports for the turbo bearing lubricator line and the oil pressure switch.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

If possible do you think you could email me the photo, I would really like to see it up close. Thanks. . andre "at" shoumatoffmedia.com

 

[driverswanted]

I Sure Andre. I also have more details of the adapter that I can send once I replace my computer monitor at home.

 

[Willys]

Driverswanted, this thread has been very helpful, please continue to post updates(and you too, Andre). I'm sure there's a number of folks reading this thread that would agree.

 

[driverswanted]

Cab sound level

I was able to borrow a sound level meter and it's calibrator today.

Engine at idle, standing outside 3' in front of grill and 3' up from ground = 88Db

Engine at idle, standing to side of front axle, 3' up , 3' out= 85. 8 Db

Inside cab, doors closed, engine at idle (890 rpm) = 67. 8 Db

On road test:

4th gear @ 55 mph = 81 Db

5th gear @ 55 mph = 80 Db

5th geear @ 60 mph = 80 Db

5th gear @ 65 mph = 81. 5 Db

5th gear @ 70 mph = 82 Db



The Goodyear Wranglers are making some substantial noise. I will take readings again when I switch to a standard road LT tire. Before I started adding insulation my truck had several layers of Durabak on the cab floor. The firewall is now insulated with two layers of the foil top bituminous sheet that is standard use as oem in doors. This was applied all the way up the inside firewall while the dash was out. One layer of the same stuff was applied on the transmission hump. Two layers of 30 lb. roof shingles were applied across both foot wells and over the transmission tunnel with one layer of roofing membrane between them. Two layers of roofing membrane were applied to the cab rear wall from floor to window. One layer of 1/8" felt was glued to the cab ceiling where there was no felt liner or cardboard. I will apply a new cab carpet when the $ becomes available.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Just wanted to bring this thread back up and say that I am very much so enjoying life because I fixed a long time problem... Turned out the pin that rests against the cam shaft at the bottom of the diahpraph pin was sticking, and has been for some time. I kept turning it up and turning it up and nothing and could not figure out for the life of me what was wrong. The only way it was tolerable (with some smoke of course) was I had the full fuel screw in close to max/against the lock collar) and that compensated for the lack of fueling pin. So if anyone is having weirds symtoms, lack of power, flat spots in power, or the truck feeling more powerful one day versus another, check to see if your pin is sticking. . You can check but pulling off the AFC cover and running the truck with the diaphram pin removed. You want to keep a screwdriver or something in there however to make sure the pin doesn't over extend itself. If it comes out easily within just one or two throttle revs, it is working properly. If it does not, then its sticking a little. For example if diaphram rotation adjustments take several miles to kick in, it is sticking a little...



My pin was so stuck that I had to get to it from the backside and pry it out/loose. Fuel pressure is what pushes it out (pressure from the lift pump, which increases with RPMS) so this is why it seizes easily, it is not spring loaded. Anyway, if you look at the pump there is a little plug with an allen key hole on the back side of where the pin goes in. I had to remove the throttle level/arm to get to the plug and once there I used a little screwdriver to push it out. Then I filled the hole where the pin goes with WD40 and moved the pin back and forth probably a dozen or so times before I pushed it back in for installation...



I am feeling like am pretty close to now figuring out optimum fueling for most power with least amount of smoke. Again my rig is 5500 lbs, on 35's with 4. 10 gearing so about about 85 at 2300 in 5th with the 27% overdrive (NV4500). Feels great. Still not able to get over the passes in 5th but I am very very close, it needs just a hair more top end fueling. As soon as I have the "optimum" setting I'll post up. At about 3/4 power diaghram it was smoking badly no matter what I did. But at about 6/10ths fueling it seems to have good power and not much smoke so far but I am going to keep tweaking around with it...



Best... Andre

 

[driverswanted]

Andre,

I had the same feeling about that fueling pin. My last adjustment seemed to take too much fuel away. I was not trying to climb to the continental divide but found that a first run I made at a much smaller hill, after I rotated the diaphragm/tapered pin, was unusually slow by the time I got to the top. All subsequent runs were fine.

I've included a pic of my pin showing the original surface marking front and center. The mark to the right is from my prior adjustment. You can see that the I have more travel to center of the pin on teh right marking. This was after I shaved down the plastic washer under the diaphragm. The main point here is that I could then see that I was actually making contact with the tapered pin, i. e. not sticking. So if you did not see some marking on the tapered pin, you could assume that your contact pin was hanging up.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

This was my logic too though and it was still sticking and giving me different power at different times, even though I had markings too. What was happening was sometimes it would come all the way out but as the plunger comes up and down (quite rapidly as you accellerate and decellerate) the pin may not respond as fast as you'd like it to. So just my $. 02. What I'd do is pull the plunger, start up the truck with something in the hole to make sure the pin doesn't come out all the way, and lube it up with some WD40 and push it back in. If the pin doesn't come out with the first rev, then you know its a little sticky Just in case while you have your plunger out. My $. 02... Best, Andre

 

[driverswanted]

Andre,

My brother and I are looking at designing an MPG meter. It would have a programable LCD display along with differential flow sensors and take in pulses from some road speed source like speedometer pulse source or driveshaft rpm. This would allow anyone who has this installed to be able to adjust their pumps or driving habits for better fuel economy and see immediate results of those adjustments. Still looking for ecomonicaly priced turbine flowmeters. I consider this idea a tool to use in "final adjustments" so I'll keep posting any updates right here.

 

[mberry]

... Two layers of 30 lb. roof shingles were applied across both foot wells and over the transmission tunnel with one layer of roofing membrane between them. Two layers of roofing membrane were applied to the cab rear wall from floor to window...

At least it won't leak!

 

[driverswanted]

bring on the snow

 

[driverswanted]

Andre,

Picked up two more mpg by rotating tapered pin back to original factory setting (worn spot in center of pin in previous photo). Full load screw is still 1/4 turn in from factory setting. Done towing the boat for the year so I moved back the settings to a better fuel economy.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Andre,

My brother and I are looking at designing an MPG meter. It would have a programable LCD display along with differential flow sensors and take in pulses from some road speed source like speedometer pulse source or driveshaft rpm. This would allow anyone who has this installed to be able to adjust their pumps or driving habits for better fuel economy and see immediate results of those adjustments. Still looking for ecomonicaly priced turbine flowmeters. I consider this idea a tool to use in "final adjustments" so I'll keep posting any updates right here.

AWESOME and I look forward to seeing how it does. I "think" I have a setup similar to yours (minus the better 9 cm WG HY35 of course, thought my WH1C is comparable) but same injectors etc. I am looking for exactly this information, aka what setting is best. I seem to have a steady stream of a light amount of smoke at all RPMs that I cannot get rid of for the life of me as of these last couple days. Ideally I am looking for most power with best MPG and with little/no smoke, if possible? Look forward to any info you have! Best, Andre

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Andre,

Picked up two more mpg by rotating tapered pin back to original factory setting (worn spot in center of pin in previous photo). Full load screw is still 1/4 turn in from factory setting. Done towing the boat for the year so I moved back the settings to a better fuel economy.

Very cool. . You have not "indexed" your OEM settings by any chance have you? I have lost my piece of paper where I recorded what OEM was for me and now have no idea where I am or where I was. Sucks! If I could set back to factory settings to start off with that would be wonderful, then turn up incrementally from there... It would be neat if someone were to record factory settings, then, for example turn full power screw all the way in and count how many full turns it takes, then put back to where it was. See where the cam on the plunger was on a 1-12 rating, so it mimics a clock, count how many full rotations on the star wheel until all the way down etc. If anyone has this info that would be totally killer for me! (Don't have the balls to ask you direct drivers wanted unless you are willing to do it. If so thanks and I owe you at least one cold frosty beer!!) Andre