5-40 rotella T synthetic Vs. delo 400 15-40

[SlyBones]

Originally posted by Cooker

Currently I am running the Delo 15w40, because for the money I don't believe there is a better oil out there. I agree with your statement, "Anyone who uses Delo 400 15w40 year-round and changes the oil and filter every 3-7 thousand miles will have an engine that will NEVER have an oil related problem. " I am currently changing at 3500 mile oil change intevals, which is way too soon. My oil analysis come back excellent.

So what was the TBN number in your exellent oil analysis? Not meant as a flame.



I used Delo 15w-40 for the first year that I had my truck. Was doing the oil/filter every 4000mi. And I would agree that doing this should never lead to an oil related problem. I recently switched to amsoil, to give it a try. One thing I did to was perform an analysis of the delo at 4000mi in my truck and then the amsoil in my truck at 4000mi.



From a wear metals point of view both were the same. Water, soot, fuel, coolant, all that exellent in both. There was only one difference TBN. And I just learned more about it this evening. You can read the "oil analysis" thread running right now. Anyways I read in here that TBN new is 11. 3 and it went to 7. 1 in my truck at 4000mi. And 7. 0 is the border line? If that stuff is true then 4000mi is it, even if you have low wear metals and other parts of the analysis look good.



Just my $. 02

 

[Oil Man]

OK guys I've been asked to help out here and answer why the Delo 400 15w-40 has a lower pour point (-38 deg F) and the Shell Rotella 5w-40 has a higher pour point at (-30 deg F) but the Delo is much thicker at low temps than the Shell Rotella oil is.



The answer is that some companies list a VERY conservative # on their tech-datas. The Shell oil has a pour point of much lower than they have posted. Take the Mobil Delvac-1 5w-40 for example it has a similar base oil and additive package and has a pour point of -65 deg F. Shell should be similar in pour point to the Delvac-1 oil.



In conclusion, the pour point of the Delo is accurate and the pour point of the Shell is much to conservative.



Sincerely,

Kevin Dinwiddie CLS

 

[SlyBones]

After reading Kevin's post in the other thread, it does look like the Delo with the TBN of 7. 1 had a few miles left in it. Learning all the time.

 

[Cooker]

Ron,

I too would like to commend you on your experiment. The numbers you found were rather suprising IMO.



Thanks for the input Kevin.



Sly,

The test I had done before did not test TBN. The wear numbers were exceptional, but I suppose the TBN could have been junk. The reason I had little concern is becasue I have seen other analysis from CTD owners running Delo and at 5000 miles their TBN's were still acceptable (8. 0-8. 5).



I will second Sly's comments about learning all the time.

 

[Cooker]

Ron,

I see you posted over on www.bobistheoilguy.com



I hope you don't mind, but I am going to repost a reply from that site so others can read what was said over there.



i thought this was an excellent question and experiment so i copied this from another board and posted it here so i might address this. .



first the definition of pour point



POUR POINT Pour point is measure of 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined.



A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point



what your looking for is pumpability. so here is the test used to look at pumpability for the simple reason that pumps are a mechanical device so there fore here is how this test is performed. .



pumping viscosity - Once an engine has been started, it needs a continuous and adequate supply of oil. The pumping viscosity of an oil determines how easily an oil will flow from the oil pump to critical parts of the engine in cold temperatures.



To measure the pumping viscosity of an oil, ASTM test method D4684 is used. In this test, a rotor is inserted into a stator containing the oil in question and very slowly cooled at a constant rate over approximately a two-day period until it reaches a specific temperature. A small force is then applied to turn the rotor and the rate at which the rotor turns is related to the viscosity. The unit of measurement used for reporting pumping viscosity is centipoise (cP). SAE has set specifications for pumping viscosity associated with the 'W' grade of oil as follows



Viscosity Grade Maximum Pumping Viscosity



25W 60,000 cP at -15°C (+5°F)



20W 60,000 cP at -20°C (-4°F)



15W 60,000 cP at -25°C (-13°F)



10W 60,000 cP at -30°C (-22°F)



5W 60,000 cP at -35°C (-31°F)



0W 60,000 cP at -40°C (-40°F)





so technicly you should have a 5w oil flowing easier at a lower temp provided it isn't gelling up.



this is a prime example as to why you don't just look at one thing to tell if the oil is good or not, in the case of a 5w having a higher pour point than a 15w. .



have u looked at the gelation index of these oils? here is the definition for gelation index. .



is when the engine oil forms a gel in the crankcase under particular slow cooling conditions -- cooling conditions that are not necessarily very low in temperature. Under these conditions, the engine can be started relatively easily. Depending on the severity of gel formation, air-binding can result in which, in an effort to pump the gelled oil, a hole forms from the surface of the oil in the crankcase to the oil pump inlet and the pump draws air rather than oil



now if i remember correctly on one of my test results i was looking at, rotella showed a poor gelation index, which would account for poor pour point in comparision of the delo.



in my personal opinion, i'd stick with the 15w instead of the 5w since 15w is going to provide a better hydrodynamic protection against wear during normal operational temps.



bob in jville

 

[DocStressor]

The pour point and gelation index of a given oil is related to the wax content of the base stock. Waxes are long chain paraffins that form a liquid crystal or gel structure at low temperatures. The gel traps the rest of the the oil components so that no flow occurs. It doesn't take very much wax to cause an oil to gel. Chevron uses a procedure they call "iso-dewaxing" to make base stocks with very low wax content. That is why Delo 400 15W-40 doesn't gel until very low temperatures are reached. But at temperature where the oil is still fluid, it is still a 15W oil. So of course the lower viscosity 5W oil will flow better at all temperatures above the gelation point.



The advantage of using a 5W-X oil in a diesel is realized when you do a lot of cold starts at low temperatures. Even though oil pressure rises quickly when a cold engine is started regardless of the weight of oil used, that doesn't mean that oil is reaching critical engine parts. I read a recent paper where it was determined that it takes almost a minute for 15W oil to reach the roller bearings of a Cummins 8. 3 at low temperature. 5W oil reached the bearings about 3X faster. The Cummins B series does not use roller bearings, but the upper valve train components are "splash" lubricated and thick oil does not splash very well. Another component affected by thick oil and low temperatures is the turbo bearing. The turbo spins at high rpm and considerable wear can occur during cold starts using thick oil.



So if you live in a climate where the temperature if frequently below freezing and you make a lot of short trips, it could make sense to spend the extra money for a 5W-30 or 5W-40 CH-4 rated diesel oil. But if you don't plan on keeping your truck for a long time, it probably doesn't make any difference.

 

[pwr2tow]

Thanks Lee, I'am always looking for new and more info.



Thanks Bob, very interesting reading. Some one must have copy and pasted my thread because this is the first time I have seen that sight.



Just what I need another site!!!!



Thanks to everyone who contributes to this thread, I'am sure alot of people will benefit from all your input and work, I know I have learn alot.



Thanks again,

Ron

 

[JohnE]

which oil?

Ron;



After all these many posts, have you decided which oil to put in the Cummins?



-John

 

[StevenWalker]

I've been using Delo 400 Synthetic 5w-40 in my VW TDI with a 10,000 mile change interval. I do 600 to 700 miles a week. I'm still using Delo 400 regular in my CTD until it is broken in a little more.

Steve

 

[pwr2tow]

John,

I would love to run the delo 400 5-40 but that stuff is as scares as a timber wolf, no pun intended, I had many dealers try and order it but none could succed.



At this point I am leaning towards Rottela T 5-40 group III synthetic.



Yes, that was me last saturday, would have been nice to talk to you in person. I don't recall seeing your truck, I was in a hurry so I probably just missed you. I had just washed the truck on thursday and then I had to drive on crappy roads full of salt, needless to say I washed it again on Sunday. Are there any good car washes in G. F. that will fit a dually? I tried to wash the truck at the conoco in E. G. F but she wouldn't fit, was fun trying to back out of there.



Ron

 

[JohnE]

Ron;



For a few dollars more you can use Delvac 5W-40 synthetic. I called <a href=<http://www.istate.com/>Interstate Detroit Diesel (IDDI)</a> today and they sell it for around $25 per gallon. I asked if he knew anyone that handled Chevron products and the answer was &quot;no&quot; . I don't think it can be easily found in the NoDak area being Amoco is the local Standard Oil brand.

The price difference between Delvac from IDDI and Rotella from Wal-Mart is around $20 total on an oil change, but that means using a proven brand versus a new comer.



I don't know of any automatic vehicle washers in the Grand Forks area that fit oversized units.

The Sinclair truck stop a &frac12; mile east of Conoco on Hwy 2 has a sign for &quot;TRUCK WASH&quot;.

When you fuel up at StaMart or Simonson you can ask them.



I use the local self serve wash and bring along a jug of hot water and scrub rags. The owner doesn't care as I still feed the money machines. The automatics do not get the underside washed down as well as I can at the self serve.

BTW, mine was the dirty RED unit closer to Sam's than Wal-Mart. Glad you didn't see it...



I'll keep looking if you're dead set on the Delo



-John

<font size=1>Added link to IDDI</font>