5.9 pre lube kit

[JoeLeonard]

I am working on a pre lube kit for 2004-2007 5. 9. We have the pump, the pump location and the wiring part figured out, but we need help figuring out where to pull oil for the pump from and where to insert the pressurized oil into the main oil rifle. We can drill through the side of the pan, but we don't want to leave chips in the pan that end up going through the oil pump. We also don't know the best place with the largest entrance plug to put the pressurized oil back into the engine. We want to observe the oil pressure come up before rotating the engine. The test vehicle is my 2007 5. 9 Mega cab 4x4 automatic, so I want to get it right the first time. I plan to use the Varna 12v EP4-12 pump mounted on the drivers side along the frame rail toward the back of the engine.



If anyone has expert knowledge of the Cummins oiling system or knows someone with that knowledge, I would sure like to hear from you. My name is Joe Leonard and our number is 530 554-4528 or e-mail -- email address removed --. Thank you.

 

[JimB1]

x2. I've been wondering same issues.

 

[JBonpua]

I believe there are four outlet on the driver's side of the engine. One is occupied by the OEM oil sending unit and another you can get to due to interferance with components. However, there is one right above the ECM that you can accress. I use it for my Amsoil pre-luber. Is your kit finished?

 

[JoeLeonard]

I want to thank JBONPAU for the technical help. Based on further research we have decided not to go ahead with the kit at this time. The reasons are:

1. The 5. 9 engine will outlive the truck by a considerable amount.
2. The pump we were planning to use was overkill and too expensive.
3. Going through the side of the pan is problematic.
4. The ports going into the pressure side of the oiling system are pretty small.
5. We didn't see much demand for a prelube kit.

Being a member of the Turbo Diesel Register as a resource is a wonderful way to learn about our truck. Thank you.

 

[Doubleclutch]

I had a Preluber kit on my '96. Suction comes from a replacement oil pan drain fitting. It discharged into an aluminum spool piece that fit between the oil filter and filter fitting. The PLUS was that oil from the sump went into the filter inlet, pressurizing the oil gallery with clean, filtered oil. The CON was oil leaks at the pump. Your observation that the engine would outlive your ownership proved to be valid in my case.

Greg

 

[DogramTD]

Is anyone runing a pre-luber on their '05? I sure could use one with these OP issues I am having! Cant find the one that Amsoil used to make.

 

[Shadrach]

I have the Amsoiler on my 03. They don't make it anymore. Shad

 

[DogramTD]

Shad, where does the kit draw from/pump to? Seems simple to make my own with a few fittings, check valve and the correct pump w/a bypass. Just not sure if it is best to pump into the side of the block where the sending unit is or the filter head/oil cooler.



How does your kit work? Definately interested in this with my intermittent OP issues on start-up... just dont like the $700-800 price tags on the ones I have found.

 

[rscurtis]

Pre-lubers were popular when I joined the TDR about 10 years ago. Many were fraught with leak issues, which could result in the sudden loss of your lube oil. They were a possibly deadly cure for a non-existent problem. Perhaps that's why you don't see them advertised any more in the TDR.

 

[DogramTD]

Unfortunately my problem is existent.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Dogram- silly question, but I'm assuming you've replaced your op sensor already? Doesn't make sense to whifferdill a problem by going around it. Our engines only need about 6-8 lbs of oil pressure to run safely. I think I heard from one of the Cummins guys that the oil pressure we read on the instrument panel is a calculated value.

 

[Wingate]

Didnt know anyone ever experimented with a pre-lube pump on such a little engine.

I wonder if it would be easier to install an injection disable switch and spin the engine over a few times before allowing it to light up vs. plumbing in a pump??

I thought about installing a post-lube accumulator for the turbo at one time, but decided it wasnt worth the effort. .

 

[seafish]

I was interested in the Amsoil pre-lube kit until I learned that it had a capacity of 1. 5 PINTS at best. Considering that our engines are circulating close to 3 GALLONS, I decided it wasn't worth the price, even though I liked the idea of pre lube.
Of course, the Amsoil kit used a fixed resorvoir and spring pressure to inject the oil, while a recirc pump system would be another animal altogether in terms of oil volume.

 

[DogramTD]

Dogram- silly question, but I'm assuming you've replaced your op sensor already? Doesn't make sense to whifferdill a problem by going around it. Our engines only need about 6-8 lbs of oil pressure to run safely. I think I heard from one of the Cummins guys that the oil pressure we read on the instrument panel is a calculated value.

Yes, when there was about 35K on the clock I brought it in with the same OP issues; sensor was replaced, ECM was flashed and they checked the bypass and relief valve on the Oil Cooler; still no fix. I now have a mechanical gauge to see what it was really doing and the stock dummy wasnt lying.

Didnt know anyone ever experimented with a pre-lube pump on such a little engine.

I wonder if it would be easier to install an injection disable switch and spin the engine over a few times before allowing it to light up vs. plumbing in a pump??

I thought about installing a post-lube accumulator for the turbo at one time, but decided it wasnt worth the effort. .

I believe the purpose is to pump up the system prior to spinning the motor; even in a non-start situation.



My problem is, and i have a few threads on here about it, is that OP may take from 30 seconds up to a minute at times to build... not good. Most folks record theirs from 4-8 seconds; mine is typically around 20 seconds, still way too long. There have been times where I have had to cycle (start/stop) the motor 3 times because the check guages light comes on all in the same early morning start up. Once OP builds, it great and wont happen again for the rest of the day.



Someone tried to tell me I have a pan full of sludge and that is why... I say he has a pan full of I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER... I have changed the oil every 3K since I have owned it using Premium blue and FG or Donaldson filters each time.



So, short of tearing the front of the truck apart to get to the pump or lifting the motor out to drop the pan for the pick-up tube (which niether may be the problem) I am looking into a pre-luber... think I can build my own for a few hundred bucks... found a shurflo pump that flows 1. 5GPM at 45-60 psi for $88. With a few fittings and a check valve... . I think this will work

 

[Doubleclutch]

Collin- it sounds like you've got your ducks in a row. Sorry for the silly question!

Greg

 

[jhenderson]

Dogram. You can loosen the motor mount bolts in the frame, and jack the motor up enough to get the pan off. Then check the pick up and pump. I know. I had to replace my pan last year, and that is how I did it. I used a soft cradle under the damper to leave the pan bolts free.

 

[BSMcCauley]

I got a pre/post lube kit out of the J. C. Whitney catalog when my truck was new and installed it with the first oil change. I fabricated my own fitting to go through the left side of the oil pan with a ¾” dip tube extending down to 1/8” off the bottom of the pan. I mounted the pump on the backside of the frame cross brace below the radiator and the timer behind the under-hood fuse panel. My purpose in getting the pump was to post-lube the turbo bearings on shut down. The immediate affect was getting an extra 2500-3000 miles on new Shell Rotella T 15w40 before turning it amber to black. However, my truck also has very seldom been started with less than 30psi lube oil pressure since. Part of my installation included a divert valve and fitting, so that was about the last time the oil plug has been removed from the oil pan as well. I spin the new oil filter on dry and the preluber fully primes and pressurizes the system before I hit the starter.



When the oil is cold enough to trip the circuit breaker I’ve installed in place of the fuse, I’ve gone ahead and started the engine anyway, but since I live down south, that hasn’t occurred very often. There was an oil change without the pump while I sourced a new set of speed reduction gears for it. The original set was cast pot metal with no lube at all in the gear case, but still lasted 4 years. I packed the replacement set of gears in grease and used the pump an additional 6 yrs or so before it locked up and immediately popped 30A fuses. I then ran without the pump for a while again while I looked for a new pump and ended up getting one off e-Bay from the UK for about $200 that was very similar to current listing # 110884657808.



I hooked it up where the old pump from Whitney had been along with adding a relief valve on the discharge since the pump was rated for 75 psi. I killed the new pump while setting the relief valve but found that it had been fitted with a plastic half-moon drive key. I promptly fitted a steel key instead and haven’t had any trouble since. The replacement pump is direct drive on helical gears which are pretty quiet and in stark contrast to the old pump from Whitney that was always very noisy even with grease on the speed reduction gears.



From working with industrial engines at work with pre/post lube systems, I new it would cut down on wear and extend the life of turbo bearings & seals. But when I opened up the timing gear case at 110,000 miles to stake the KDP, I was surprised to find the cam gear still had tool marks on it!



Pictures of my pump installation are in the attachments.

 

[Wingate]

Yes, when there was about 35K on the clock I brought it in with the same OP issues; sensor was replaced, ECM was flashed and they checked the bypass and relief valve on the Oil Cooler; still no fix. I now have a mechanical gauge to see what it was really doing and the stock dummy wasnt lying.







I believe the purpose is to pump up the system prior to spinning the motor; even in a non-start situation.



My problem is, and i have a few threads on here about it, is that OP may take from 30 seconds up to a minute at times to build... not good. Most folks record theirs from 4-8 seconds; mine is typically around 20 seconds, still way too long. There have been times where I have had to cycle (start/stop) the motor 3 times because the check guages light comes on all in the same early morning start up. Once OP builds, it great and wont happen again for the rest of the day.



Someone tried to tell me I have a pan full of sludge and that is why... I say he has a pan full of I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER... I have changed the oil every 3K since I have owned it using Premium blue and FG or Donaldson filters each time.



So, short of tearing the front of the truck apart to get to the pump or lifting the motor out to drop the pan for the pick-up tube (which niether may be the problem) I am looking into a pre-luber... think I can build my own for a few hundred bucks... found a shurflo pump that flows 1. 5GPM at 45-60 psi for $88. With a few fittings and a check valve... . I think this will work

I see... so you are trying to use a pre-lube device to overcome the lack of oil pressure at startup... How long has the truck been doing this?

Years ago, I used a PRE-start accumulator for firing up freshly rebuilt engines, but it had a simple ball valve on it...

 

[zzman]

compression release is what we used on the old Pete in the 70s

Had to with weak batteries

 

[BSMcCauley]

... found a shurflo pump that flows 1. 5GPM at 45-60 psi for $88...

The shurflo pumps I'm familiar with are intended for water transfer and small weed sprayers. I'd make sure your's is rated for at least 200°F continuous before using it to pre-lube a warm engine -- or using it at all for a post-lube application...



Regardless of what pump is used, a check valve at the delivery point into the engine should be considered so that the pre-lube system hoses are not pressured up during engine operation. And you don't want to depend on the aux pump preventing backflow between uses. Also, you don't a leak on an auxiliary system like this emptying out your lube oil while you're trolleying down the road :-laf