5.9 pre lube kit

[rscurtis]

Here's something else you could try as a troubleshooting aide- temporarily overfill the crankcase and see if the problem disappears. If it does, the problem is in the pump or the pick-up assembly. If it doesn't, then the PRV could be suspect. It's a lot easier than taking stuff apart and hoping you found the problem.



I agree with BSMcCauley, you're looking for trouble with an add-on system.

 

[DogramTD]

The shurflo pumps I'm familiar with are intended for water transfer and small weed sprayers. I'd make sure your's is rated for at least 200°F continuous before using it to pre-lube a warm engine -- or using it at all for a post-lube application...



Regardless of what pump is used, a check valve at the delivery point into the engine should be considered so that the pre-lube system hoses are not pressured up during engine operation. And you don't want to depend on the aux pump preventing backflow between uses. Also, you don't a leak on an auxiliary system like this emptying out your lube oil while you're trolleying down the road :-laf

This pump is for petroleum product and yes, only rated at 185* but I will only need it in the mornings on first start-up, like I said before, this is the only time it happens. No intention of using it as a post-lube; the $400 pump you showed me on e-bay is good for that but not worth the $$ to me when I am only pre-lubing. Yesterday morning was the worst yet, took 4 times of shutting it down and restarting it before the OP would pick up.



I didnt give full details of my plans but yes, check valve is in my plan. Last 2 things I need to know are what size is the drain plug on our oil pans for the adapter and where did you plumb the pump discharge to, filter head or OP sending unit? Have you had a leak on your auxillary system empty out your lube oil yet? You do have the same system right?

Here's something else you could try as a troubleshooting aide- temporarily overfill the crankcase and see if the problem disappears. If it does, the problem is in the pump or the pick-up assembly. If it doesn't, then the PRV could be suspect. It's a lot easier than taking stuff apart and hoping you found the problem.



I agree with BSMcCauley, you're looking for trouble with an add-on system.

I havent tried overfilling the crankcase yet but the RV in the OC was checked. Before this idea I was just going to pull the entire OC and replace it with new since it is only $80, but... its throwing parts a something I dont know the cause of

 

[cerberusiam]

Your talking about trying to go cheap on $5k motor. That is just going to be counter productive in the long run.



To do the pre-oiler system right you need to pull the pan and braze a fitting on it any way. At that point its just as easy to replace the pump and pickup. There is obviuosly something interfering with prime and the system is so simple its has to be in the pump and pickup now. Vibrations can raise total havoc with parts and nomatter what you do externally it is still a time bomb.



If you spend any time where your signature says in the winter, I would not even mess with a cobbled together system. Thats just too many problems waiting to happen. Good luck with your quest but I think you would be better off in the long run finding the real problem.

 

[hbowers]

I had a pre luber on my first dodge cummins,a 97. I realized the engine was good for a million miles w/out it so I tookit off and sold it. it is'nt nesessary at all. imo. it's another place for a possible oil leak.

 

[Shadrach]

Since I don't drive my CTD on a regular basis I installed the Amsoil pre lube to give it a shot of oil before I start the engine. It squirts oil into the oil gallery before I start the engine and then when the engine is running it refills itself for the next time. I also have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge because I don't trust the stock one with the way it is set up. Shad

 

[BSMcCauley]

Last 2 things I need to know are what size is the drain plug on our oil pans for the adapter and where did you plumb the pump discharge to, filter head or OP sending unit? Have you had a leak on your auxillary system empty out your lube oil yet? You do have the same system right?

The kit I got included a 90° fitting to replace the oil drain plug. I didn't like a fitting hanging down 2" below the oil pan waiting for something to slip under the front axle and rip it off or pull the hose off it. I made up my own fitting going through the right side of the oil pan with a 3/4" dip-tube extending down to about 3/16" off the bottom of the pan. Then there is a screen in the suction line that can be pulled off and cleaned if necessary (I've never needed to yet).



I'm pre/post lubing with filtered oil. I drilled & tapped 3/8" NPT through the top side of the oil filter base on the inlet side of the filter and then was VERY careful to properly dope the fitting and turn it in ONLY far enough to seal so as not to break the relatively thin aluminum. The fitting ID matches the 1/2" SS tubing running between it and the check valve. All the rest of the plumbing is push-loc 300# oil hose from the local Parker store except for a bit of 1/2" copper running between a 3-way valve and oil-change hose connection.



I've got 270,000 miles now and have never had a leak in the aux lube system anywhere. I did have to replace the speed reduction gears once in the noisy pump supplied with the Whitney kit and then ended up replacing the pump (pump only, rest of system is unchanged), although I got a better pump for less than 1/2 what they appear to cost now for a good direct-drive helical gear pump.

 

[DogramTD]

Your talking about trying to go cheap on $5k motor. That is just going to be counter productive in the long run.



Cerb, not talking about going cheap, I was talking about not spending excess money on a pump feature that I am not looking for.



To do the pre-oiler system right you need to pull the pan and braze a fitting on it any way. At that point its just as easy to replace the pump and pickup. There is obviuosly something interfering with prime and the system is so simple its has to be in the pump and pickup now. Vibrations can raise total havoc with parts and nomatter what you do externally it is still a time bomb.



As BSMcCauley states, there is a drain plug fitting designed for this, what I dont know is our thread size. I could still use my fumoto valve and a nipple comes off of the side to attach the suction line.



If you spend any time where your signature says in the winter, I would not even mess with a cobbled together system. Thats just too many problems waiting to happen. Good luck with your quest but I think you would be better off in the long run finding the real problem.

I would love to find the real problem but I dont have the time to drop the pan or tear the front of the truck apart to get to the pump, especially when I need my truck for work daily. System wouldnt be cobbled together... I like to take my time, research and do it right

The kit I got included a 90° fitting to replace the oil drain plug. I didn't like a fitting hanging down 2" below the oil pan waiting for something to slip under the front axle and rip it off or pull the hose off it. I made up my own fitting going through the right side of the oil pan with a 3/4" dip-tube extending down to about 3/16" off the bottom of the pan. Then there is a screen in the suction line that can be pulled off and cleaned if necessary (I've never needed to yet).



I'm pre/post lubing with filtered oil. I drilled & tapped 3/8" NPT through the top side of the oil filter base on the inlet side of the filter and then was VERY careful to properly dope the fitting and turn it in ONLY far enough to seal so as not to break the relatively thin aluminum. The fitting ID matches the 1/2" SS tubing running between it and the check valve. All the rest of the plumbing is push-loc 300# oil hose from the local Parker store except for a bit of 1/2" copper running between a 3-way valve and oil-change hose connection.



I've got 270,000 miles now and have never had a leak in the aux lube system anywhere. I did have to replace the speed reduction gears once in the noisy pump supplied with the Whitney kit and then ended up replacing the pump (pump only, rest of system is unchanged), although I got a better pump for less than 1/2 what they appear to cost now for a good direct-drive helical gear pump.

Thanks for the info BSMcauley... I will keep this in my back pocket as I am still not sure what I am going to do... take off all my add ons and sell it for a new one #@$%!

 

[Shadrach]

I looked at the plumbing on my AMSOILER last night. It is real simple, a #4 line from the main oil pressure gallery on the drivers side goes into the preoiler. When I turn the key on it releases the oil under pressure into the main oil gallery. It only takes a few seconds. When the engine is cold I am already waiting for the wait to start light to go out anyway. When the engine starts that same line take oil under pressure, now going the other direction, from the main oil gallery and refills the preoiler for the next start. When I go to do an oil change I turn on the key to drain the preoiler of the dirty oil. It's kind of over kill but I installed when I rebuilt the engine.

Cummins runs a pre lube system on its high horse power ( and very expensive ) engines. There are 2 versions of it. Both pump oil into the engine before the engine fires up. One version has the pre lube mote attached to the starter and the other has it seperate, using a stock starter. Both are made by RPM industries Pre lube - Post Lube Engine Lubrication Systems and Prelubers and are way too expensive for a " small and inexpensive " engine like ours.

Shad

 

[AH64ID]

Where does it plumb into the pressure side?

 

[Wingate]

I looked at the plumbing on my AMSOILER last night. It is real simple, a #4 line from the main oil pressure gallery on the drivers side goes into the preoiler. When I turn the key on it releases the oil under pressure into the main oil gallery. It only takes a few seconds. When the engine is cold I am already waiting for the wait to start light to go out anyway. When the engine starts that same line take oil under pressure, now going the other direction, from the main oil gallery and refills the preoiler for the next start. When I go to do an oil change I turn on the key to drain the preoiler of the dirty oil. It's kind of over kill but I installed when I rebuilt the engine.



Cummins runs a pre lube system on its high horse power ( and very expensive ) engines. There are 2 versions of it. Both pump oil into the engine before the engine fires up. One version has the pre lube mote attached to the starter and the other has it seperate, using a stock starter. Both are made by RPM industries Pre lube - Post Lube Engine Lubrication Systems and Prelubers and are way too expensive for a " small and inexpensive " engine like ours.



Shad

I think most Cat, Detroit/MTU and Cummins engines, no matter the size, can be ordered with pre-lube/post-lube systems... either being pneumatic or electric. Some engines have none, some have turbo accumulators only to protect the turbos during a full load shutdown, some have pre-lube/post-lube with or without the addition of the turbo accumulator.

The decision to install them at the manufacturer level is usually decided by the intended application and/or the customers order request. .

For instance, the Cat D-11 engine uses an electric starter motor with an oil pump built onto the rear of it, when the operator calls for a start, the starter motor spins without the bendix engaging until an oil pressure switch is satisfied, at which point the bendix engages and cranks the engine.

 

[Shadrach]

Where does it plumb into the pressure side?

Look on the drivers side of the engine and you will find the oil sender. Above the "round" hole in the picture and to the right of the "oval" hole. This is in the main oil gallery of the engine.



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Shad

 

[AH64ID]

I think that's the port where I read pressure on my truck.

 

[DogramTD]

Shad, the accumulator seemed like an easy solution but I didnt feel it would hold enough oil in one "shot" to satisfy the cummins oil galley and bearings. In your experience it does?

 

[Shadrach]

I have no real way of telling. I put it on when I rebuilt the engine & I never drove it before that. As for how long it takes the gauge to react depends on so many variables, oil weight, cold or hot engine, cold or hot weather, wear and tear on lube pump... A preluber like the one RPM makes would of course be a lot better because you would actually get oil pressure before it fired, where as with mine I just get a "shot" of oil thru the oil galleries. I have to believe it is better than nothing, besides I not removing it Shad