5.9 rebuild

[SGibson]

My truck is dead, cab is cracked, rust thru in roof, toothless 3. 07,spit in the bed and it's on the overloads, dead. Now the fun starts. I'm going to pull the motor and put in my 88 dump in front of a 4500. How are these motors to build? I'm going from the pan to the deck first so how about core shift, main alignment,crank kits,bearing type and vendors,oil pumps, are the auto cranks different from manuals? If it will clean up @ . 010 or . 020 are pistons avail? and from whom. cams and profiles, I have built a few 318,340,360,383,440's and a Hemi or two,but this is a horse of a different color and I am not familiar with who makes what, oem or a/market, finding a quality machine shop in this town can be a challenge, but I think from what I've read in this forum I'll get the best advice from you guys, so how about it on a solid work truck bottom end. thanks,Steve

 

[tugboatphil]

Steve,



I recently asked a question of our friend Greenleaf. He works on diesles for a living. My question was, "Why don't I read about people increasing bore or changing stroke, like they do on gassers?" This was his reply to me:



begin sermon



Yep, the gasser boys either swap engines or bore it bigger. Bigger

bore/stroke = greater hp... ..... in a gasser piece of %#@#$.

I will reply with why we DO NOT as opposed to why they do, and you'll

have a good idea about both.



Our diesels are turbocharged. And it's a

compression engine, ie no spark. All we gots ta do is add more fuel. But then we can't burn it all, so we add more air. Cool huh? No need to increase bore/stroke.



Only in extreams do we increase bore/sroke. Some tractor pullers do. They will net 1,500 hp from a 130 hp engine. They also have to employ special pistons/water injection to prevent melting the engine, and even then,,,,, they often do.



Some engines are sleeved. Ours are not. We have a parent bore. A sleeved

engine is renewed by replacing the piston /sleeve. No reboring. Just

replace the sleeve aka liner. Our engines can be bored. However they are often bored then a dry sleeve is installed. . Some sleeves are wet. Can't

bore it. Lots of older farm tractors are

bored. Oversized pistons are

installed. Just like the small gassers. Some tractors are bored like our

CTD and a dry sleeve installed.



The big truck engines are (near all) are wet sleeved, called a liner. Held in by the cyl. head and sealed with O rings,

so ya don't have coolent in yer oil pan. Out with the old, in with the new. This way, you don't have to pull the engine to rebuild it. Pretty cool, huh?



end sermon



That made sense to me. Hope it helps you.

 

[Greenleaf]

Rebuild??????????



Man,,,,,,,you'd have to really want to do it as opposed to "need it"... ... ... ... ... ... .



I have a 89 CTD here at school with well over 10,000 hours and wouldn't think of rebuilding it, yet. (maybe at 20,000???)



Have you not read any of the testimonials in our magazine? Look at some of the miles these guys are running up!!!!



Over sized pistons? That's a new one. I simply don't know if they are available.



The method is very much like a gasser, however all parts are twice as heavy... ... and not required nearly as often as a gas engine.



Get the engine service manual. It gives step-by-step directions as to "how"



Replacement cams are available for performance. Is that what you have in mind, or are you thinking it's worn out.



Think interms of a gas engine rebuild... . then multiply the mileage by three.



-S

 

[REakin]

You should get a hold of me. I see you are in St. Louis. I had mine rebuilt with . 020" pistons. I can't remember the brand name though..... It's the same as cummins uses, just in a different box..... I can set you up with the man who did my rebuild. He is in Trenton Illinois ( about 40 Min. from the arch) I can also set you up with a raceing engine builder who could spin ballance your rotating assembly (NICE). E- mail me, and I might tell you everything I know! Heck... . maybe even let you drive the beast... ... .



Just for everyone's information, when I had my crank spin ballanced, the nose was 29 grams out and the tail was almost 40. The flywheel was pretty close at 10 though.



I'm located about 20 min. from the arch.



-- email address removed --

 

[1stgen4evr]

rebuild

Oversized pistons are available from Cummins for sure. As noted, you may not need to do an overbore just yet. I rather think that it has quite a bit of life still in it without any work at all being done. Since you are putting the engine in a dump truck, my thinking is that you don't really want to spend the money on a balance job.



The engines are not as closely balanced as would be desired for a performance engine so if anyone is going BIG with the bomb, do the balance. Because these engines are being used in competition setups, there are many options as to hp mods.



I can see it now. Loaded dump truck does wheel stand at red light.



You have my PM Steve.



James

 

[Greenleaf]

Well, ok then..... maybe mutiply the mileage by five then... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[SGibson]

If I can get by with re-ringing, inserts,oil pump,and fuel pumps I'd consider myself damn fortunate, but this truck has been a c/c since new,I am the third owner and it always ran around w/ clean oil& fresh filters (every 2k) since I've had it but what about the 1st. 350k? The oil pressure (fact. gauge) has always been marginal, it blows the blues almost constantly,and my ignorance to egt's (hadn't heard that term since jet-mech days) I'm suprised it has enough comp. to start, of course thats specultive because the day it became toothless 3. 07 I went to pick it up with the trailer and the starter shot craps. Had to push it on by hand. I would probably balance the recip. assy. , hi-output oil pump,the minimum to clean up on the bore and a stock cam&lifters,new rod bolts, check main alinement, or is this all overkill?

 

[dpuckett]

I'd do a top end rebuild only, and then only if I needed it. If you dont plan on going all out with the BOMBing, you should be ok with a thicker head gasket and stock pistons. My 91 spent the first 180K or so pulling a 40ft GN flatbed, hauling tractors all over the west and midwest. The pump was turned up as soon as the owner thought it broke in, and he didnt even put a pyro on it. I replaced the head gasket at 255K- drove it for 10K with the blown HG. Didnt know what it was; just made a funny noise under load. ANyway, when I took the head off, it still had the cross hatches in the cylinders. The original turbo got burnt up from too many hot shut downs. 5 of the original injectors were popping within 50psi of each other- odd one popped at 450 or so. I dont think my engine to be an exception, but rather, the rule. These things can take a beating becaus they ARE so heavy duty, and keep going. I fully expect to get a million or more from this engine, provided I dont sell it.



Blue smoke in a diesel is more often a fuel system problem- you'll hardly ever see smoke if it is burning oil. [why do I have a premonition of needing Kevlar pants for that one?] How is your oil level between changes? I wouldnt worry about the oil pressure in the factory gauge, either. Mine barely comes up to the second line at highway speeds, but has 25 psi at warm idle; 70-75 at WOT. The gauge is fed by an electronic sender, $50 from DC; one step above an idiot light.



Now, I'd go with a ported head, strictly form a flow standpoint; it CANT hurt anything. Get an aftermarket cam, HD valve springs, injectors, pump gone through, though I've seen VEs go 500+ with no rebuilds. ATS manifold is a no brainer, along with a bigger turbo (how much bigger depends on your intentions and goals. ) While it may not hurt to check things out, I seriously doubt it needs a pan to head rebuild. These things put out a fraction of their potential, even moderately BOMBed, and will go forever. 10K hours, at an average of 40 mph, is 400K; at 60 mph is 600K.



Daniel

 

[SGibson]

It burns a quart about every 500-700 miles, gets 12mpg

 

[JLEONARD]

I would tear it apart and inspect for wear before I planned on anything. You might be pleasantly surprised as others have suggested... but then gain you may find indications that a crank regrind, cylinder honing, etc may be in order.

If it were my engine I would with out a doubt go for a modern head with the smaller injector bore.

I probably wouldn't bother with balancing, but would put my $$ in an upgraded turbo, injectors, those kinds of things.

Just another opinion from a nutty dieselhead.

Good luck no matter how you end up.....

Jay

 

[dpuckett]

Originally posted by SGibson

It burns a quart about every 500-700 miles, gets 12mpg

I'd be even more inclined to think fuel system, but it still wouldnt hurt to check out the rest of it. I wont bore you with more longevity stories, but performance parts dont cost much more than stock replacements. Keep us updated on what you find.



DP

 

[REakin]

Well, as far as ballancing the engine goes, if it's apart, and you have the money to do it..... why shouldn't you? Don't tell me because nobody else does. If you are going to keep it have it done. You may never be able to tell the difference, but if you don't have it done and the weight tollerances add up out of your favor you may never be happy. I don't care what it's going in, S-10 or C-60.





What's it going to hurt?