5.9 vs. 8.3 VE pump

[Reb.B]

are the pumps the same, or does the the VE on a 8. 3 have a larger plunger, ... ... ... . thanks, ... reb

 

[nickleinonen]

wrong forum i think. try the 24v one

 

[Reb.B]

wrong forum!, ... don't u guys know what a VE pump is, lol. IT is located on a 1st gen truck. Not a VP44. anyway, ... . i've been told that the early 8. 3 ctd had a VE pump,(it does) ... just like the 5. 9 ctd, . . but it had a larger plunger(oh ya... . more fuel!). If this is true(?), than this might be a good cheap upgrade to make more HP than going to a P-7100 series pump. thanx, reb

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I'm moving this to the 1st gen forum where you're more likely to get an answer on it.

 

[Reb.B]

oops, ... i always think that the top is 1st gen, ... sorry about that, ... . i'm sure i'll get a better answer here! lol.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hi rebsram,



I'm unable to comment directly on the 8. 3 version of the VE pump however...

I have been told by Piers that the existing VE pump can supply far more fuel than our trucks can burn, in it's current configuration as it is. It would seem logical that the same would apply to the 8. 3 version of the VE, only more so. .

If the configuration (eg: turbo, injectors,exhaust,cam etc) is the same, then the 8. 3 VE would not help, but just make for more overfueling/smoke/heat.

Unless of course you go all out and make a race cam change, and some serious other upgrades. Now if that supposition is true, then the upgrades needed would put you way over the top and wipe out any "cheap" value of using the 8. 3 VE.

Specifially, I'm thinking custom turbo (twins?), cam, fly cutting pistons, serious exhaust upgrade, ATS manifold (re: heat), custom air intake(?), major drivetrain upgrades. .

Right now a Piersified VE pump is around $1400 USD.

The only benefit that comes to mind is that the 8. 3VE pump itself may not have to work as hard to provide the supply/over supply.

I do know that the existing pump is used on a number of other applications, from marine to industrial. These are usually higher HP applications, were emissions are less of an issue, and drivetrain survivability is also not an issue.

These VE applications do have some differences from ours, but I'm not sure what, and how much.



Having said all of that, I'd be interested in any insights others may have on this topic.

Perhaps we can get Piers or Power Wagon or Joe D. to comment as they have much more experience with those particular components.



Regards, Bob.

 

[Reb.B]

well could it be that the VE puts out enough fuel, but not enough pressure. It seems to me that the VE motors lack the RPM to make serious HP. Sure would be nice to hop up one of these pumps to the max. Of course its all a combo, ie. opening the head, o-ring, turbo's, Nos, propane,alcohol, ya know, gotta feed that HP craze. Only thing we gotta do to the VE motor to change it to a p-pump, increase injector pop off pressure, and change lines, gear case, and timing gear and u have a p-pump motor. But for the average Joe wanting to make power, u are going to add the bigger turbo's, etc. , but saving money on building a killler VE pump instead of changing to a p-pump, would give a guy more money to spend on cams, head work, turbos, etc.

I'm gonna do some more checking into this, and see if a larger plunger and tweaking of the govenor will do anything. If anybody has messed with this, please let us know, ... . thanx, reb

 

[Old Smoky]

I don't think that RPM's are a problem. I know of a certain first gen that is turing 3600 RPM. I defule right at 3000 RPM.



Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I tend to agree with Old Smokey,, nascar mark is running between 3300 and 3600 RPM street/dyno.

The governor is fairly easy to adjust and you can take these engines right up into the "valve float" range fairly easily so RPM in general is not an issue, other than, you can over rev the VE. At least that is my understanding. Since it is a single plunger that thing is really moving at higher RPM's.

Perhaps this is were another application pump, or a 'hopped up' pump will make a difference.



More input/ideas??????



Bob.

 

[A Johnson]

I have never seen a Cummins 8. 3 C series with a VE pump (rotory), they have all been inlines to my knowledge.



Anyone else?



A Johnson

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Actually I didn't want to demonstrate that I was TOTALLY out of touch , I also wondered if the VE was used, or a more robust inline...

Hey reb', can you confirm that info??????



bob.

 

[BCaldwell]

ve pumps

one of the mechaniccs @ work has told me of applications where our engines are turning out over 400 hp

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

OOOOOoooboy... ok, can you find out in what application he's talking about. ???



Bob.

 

[BCaldwell]

marine applications bob please phone me as i have lost your number re peirs

 

[nascar mark]

I asked this question at cummins one day while buying my oil filter. One of the parts guys is a brother of a friend. He looked up 5. 9 marine engines and high hp cummins pumps for me and he told me the 370hp marine 5. 9 is the highest hp engine and was using a P-pump. Not a VE44 pump.



So it leaves one to wonder.



mark

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

A P-Pump ??? hmmmmm, so basically these engines came with that pump as original equip. for the marine applic. then... .

As I understand it you need to do some re & re on the timing gear case or something to run a p-pump on our trucks. . Is that correct? If so, why not just switch covers entirely then??

Also, the HP rating for the marine that you quote mark, would suggest that the HP limitations for the VE may well be 300 + or -



More digging needed here. Any buddies in the marine end... anyone???



bob.

 

[nascar mark]

As far as i know, pump gear and shaft to pump is different.



As far as hp level of VE pump as you know was thought to be around 230 -240 rwhp max which = 280 crank hp.



So far i've found alittle more as you know.

Which = aprox 370 crank hp so that little pump is mighter then most thought.



There's more left in that pump i'm sure.

Time will tell.



mark

 

[therabbittree]

ve pumps will turn over 3000 rpm (pump rpm = 1/2 engine rpm) i know piers built my vw ve pump and it supposedly turns 3200 rpm max which is 6400 rpm engine wise so the rpm is not a factor. . the afc springs come in different sizes i took out my piers ve pump spring and swapped it in to my dodge ve . . the dodge one is really long and stiff the piers ve was short and softer tension wise. . also you can take the little nylon washer and grind it down in thickness and dremel the diaphram rod with a deeper indent ... . ah turning th emax rpm screw helps a real lot. . i was only getting up to 72mph max before now the trucks pulls past 85mph!... i backed out because i didn't finish my egt install swap from my vw yet... . once the guages are in im gonna try my 370 marine injectors out. . i heard they might work ... later

Deo

\x/ hillfolk!

 

[Reb.B]

i was told by a diesel shop that the older industrial 8. 3's had Ve pumps. I gonna make sure of this. I thought i remember seeing one, but now i'm not sure. To change over to a p-pump u need to, buy fuel injector lines, pump gear, gear case, ... u need to pull the cam when u change the gear case, or figure out a way the pull the timeing gear off and press it back onto the cam. Also the injectors need to be shimmed for a higher pop off pressure. I was trying to see if the VE can be hopped up enough so changing to the p-pump would be a last option. The p-pump Is the best pump to use, but the cost time, etc, sis too much for a lot of people to handle. I'll do some more checking on the VE pump, thanx, reb

 

[Dman]

VE pumps in C series (8.3)

A look through "Cummins Repair Manual Injection Pumps and Injectors Midrange Engines" reveals no VE pumps in C series. Only listings are for inline Bosch and Nippondenso pumps.

I have read about different plungers being available for VE pumps through Bosch rebuilders. I never checked into this.