5.9L 555 vs 600 Cummins - trade-offs?

[MojaveJoe]

So... Iam having a lot of trouble finding a 2003-2004.0 truck with a 305hp 5.9L pre-smog engine. Bringing me to the obvious question, Would I be just as happy with a Cummins 600 5.9L engine vintage 2004.5 - 2007.0?

Anyone care to educate me on the trade-offs of moving up one level? I understand the 600 engine which came out a half year after mine, has EGR, CAT and larger exhaust, also has a 3rd injection event which seriously reduces the mileage the engine can obtain. At 200K my 2004.0 was getting 20mph hwy. Will the 600 ever do that?

I know for sure I don't want to deal with the 2007.5 to 2012 6.7 with all it's smog problems, DEF regen etc etc. But a 2013+ is just too costly to buy at my age. Besides I don't want my kids to hate me for buying a new truck a few years before they inherit my money. :-laf

Any and all advice and experiences welcome.
Joe

 

[Ozymandias]

There is no EGR.
I dont see a downside either.
Have a better transmission, more power, exhaust diameter, better electronics, the 11.5 Rear Axle, and only a 100% passiv CAT.

So for me i wanted the 04.5 far more then the old 555 with all the downsides. I dont care a lot about 1, 2 more miles to the gallon.

 

[RVTRKN]

3rd injection event vrs two injection event, cat vrs no cat. I was very happy with my 04.5, my brother is as well, now that he's had it for 5 years. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase up to 2007. I would stay away from the early 6.7's, lots of issues with the regen, unless its deleted, even then I would have one completely inspected by a professional.

 

[jgillott]

Having our 2 current 3rd gens with the 325/600/610 engines, I have absolutely no hesitation recommending them to others. Outstanding reliability and performance.

 

[RVTRKN]

There is no EGR.

No EGR until 6.7, but I did forget about the 4" exhaust from turbo back. Also the valve seats were also changed to handle the higher EGT.

 

[Motorhead]

Been real happy with my 2007, 5.9. Almost got 80,000 miles and it runs like a top. I have towed with it maybe 15,000 miles of the 80,000. Best additions to my truck were the PRXB Pacbrake, the Dynatrac hubs and the Glacier 2 micron secondary fuel filter.
A friend of mine is going to be selling his 2007, 5.9, 4x4 Laramie Quad cab with 60K on it coming soon. I have knowledge of the truck since new as I drove it home from the dealer for the first owner. My Dentist bought it from the original owner. I installed a PRXB pacbrake on it and one of my TIPM savers when I was building them. It is white with a short bed. He is buying a 2016 Mega cab.

 

[MojaveJoe]

Too bad its not a LB truck. Id be interested.

Thanks guys for all your input on the 2004.5-2007.0 600 engines. You have convinced me not to bypass them in my search. So now when I do a search within 500 miles of home I get 3-4 results instead of 1-2.

I really just need to buy a truck and get the repair work done myself. Then I will know the quality of the work and the reliability of the truck down the road, maybe.

 

[Tuesdak]

Not major deals, but, 2003 had the best pistons and the 6.7's went back to the stronger 2003 design. Different injector spray angle as well. The 2003's sprayed into the piston bowl and 2004.5+ sprays more onto the piston crown edges. Theory is ring breakage and valve seat issues started showing up. The older years also don't have the integrated power module that's easy to fry with a standard issue bad trailer wiring short.

No reason YOU can't spend the money YOU worked hard for. Otherwise just give it to your kids now so you can watch them enjoy it.

 

[cerberusiam]

The 2003's sprayed into the piston bowl and 2004.5+ sprays more onto the piston crown edges.

Other way around.

The 04.5+ engines have better valves and somewhat better air flow in the heads. The 06-07 tricks have all the glitches with the ECU and harnesses that show up. 04.5-05 were about as dead reliable as they got with the electronics.

With anything used it is about how well it has been maintained and how hard it has been driven, hard to quantify that.

 

[Wayne M.]

I always thought that the 04.5-07 engines had IN CYLINDER EGR. This is not the same as cooled EGR as in the 07.5 up engine.

 

[Ozymandias]

If I read the camshaft then I can't see anything that indicates an internal EGR, that seems to my like an urban legend.

 

[Motorhead]

If I read the camshaft then I can't see anything that indicates an internal EGR, that seems to my like an urban legend.

The internal EGR, from my understanding, comes from the third, late injection event and possibly the cam has something to do with it too.

My 2007, 5.9 at 8 years old and 80,000 miles, I have not had ONE issue with ECU, TIPM or any wiring harness issues.

 

[lpennock]

Internal EGR is just early exhaust closing. This causes some bunt gas to be trapped in the cylinder which contaminates the incoming fresh air so that on the next combustion event there is less air to burn. In addition retarded timing is used which results in less peak cylinder pressures. Between the two things the temperature of the burn is decreased which results in less NO2 emissions.

 

[promisedland]

As i have been told AFTER i bought my 04.5 ... 'short' exh. valve opening with the cam [as was just said] late inj. [delayed timing] tight exh. housing on the turbo, and diff. piston bowls and inj. tips..... internal EGR.....= EPA! [ diff. pistons and inj. 04.5 to 07 only] Third inj. event dosnt come on till eng. is under high power/high eng. load. CAT was also added in 04.5 but what i hear it really dosnt have much of a power restriction...

Add a Smarty to correct the timing, swap the turbo to reduce back pressure, swap cam to let more exh. out of cylinder, and HOPE you never have to change pistons!

This is my understanding. I have the Smarty & moded stock turbo [yes, i do have less drive psi] Cam will prob. not be touched,.. pistons i hope never to see!

 

[Wayne M.]

I still can't confirm/ deny internal EGR in this engine, but it was a popular solution pre 2008 EPA. Mack used it and here's a page from their book explaining it.

 

[BILTIT]

When i went looking for a 3rd gen, it came down to interior and looks (to be honest). My friend has an 06 slt (i think?), hated the interior and seats. I don't like the looks of the headlights and 07 had tail lights that make me puke.

I opted for an 03 laramie, better interior and seats imo. I like the look of the headlights/taillights better also.

Engine never was much of a concern really, they can all be upgraded for more than enough power. (i was a little partial for the pre-3rd injection engine though).

It is really just personal preference when it comes to the 3rd gen trucks i find.