50hp. DDP's With Smarty Jr?

[Wingate]

Anyone have any first-hand experience with adding a set of 50 hp. nozzles to a stock CR 5. 9L automatic WITH a Smarty Jr. ???

Wondering how reliable the setup is? How does it respond with the Jr. when towing heavy in high ambient temps? How does the auto trans. hold up with responsible driving?. . I am currently runnign the Jr. on Economy, did not like the performance setting for towing. .

Also, are the two hp. claims additive? Meaning, if the Economy setting on the Jr. is 40 hp, and the nozzles are 50 hp... do I really get 90 extra RWHP?

 

[NavyDood]

I'm more curious as to how you didn't like the performance setting for towing. EGT's too high? Didn't help like you thought it would? I ran my Smarty Jr. on the 40hp tune towing my 5vr from MD back to TX taking the northern route through PA, OH, IN MO, AR, TX this past summer. I was 21K combined weight. My truck ran perfectly, had plenty of power and EGT's were great. Here is a pic of my gauges going through AR about an hour from TX with outside temps of 106°F. Had the cruise set at 65mph with the OD on.

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[HBarlow]

Hey Wingate,

Let me be the first to recommend James Northrum over in Midlothian, not too far from you.

James Transmission Technology - (972) 467-3702 - Home

You'll want to get to know James before long. He'll give you a full DTT bullet proof rebuild when you need it.

He built mine in my '06.

 

[Wingate]

I'm more curious as to how you didn't like the performance setting for towing. EGT's too high? Didn't help like you thought it would? I ran my Smarty Jr. on the 40hp tune towing my 5vr from MD back to TX taking the northern route through PA, OH, IN MO, AR, TX this past summer. I was 21K combined weight. My truck ran perfectly, had plenty of power and EGT's were great. Here is a pic of my gauges going through AR about an hour from TX with outside temps of 106°F. Had the cruise set at 65mph with the OD on.



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The smoke was a little more than I really wanted. Noticed that there was an accumulation of soot on my travel trailer. Of course, soot always shows up on a white travel trailer...

I like the Economy setting from the Jr, really woke up the throttle response and mid-range power without making the truck "jumpy"

Rather than cranking up the fueling even more with the Jr, I'm thinking that a mechanical change would be better, not sure... I've had these 50hp. DDP nozzles for almost 3 years, just sitting here, in the box...

Its my understanding the jr. at Economy mode only alters fuel timing, other than emissions, there aren't really any negative effects. Doesn't the Performance mode clamp the wastegate and allow for higher boost (above the 32-34 psi stock)

 

[Wingate]

Hey Wingate,



Let me be the first to recommend James Northrum over in Midlothian, not too far from you.



James Transmission Technology - (972) 467-3702 - Home



You'll want to get to know James before long. He'll give you a full DTT bullet proof rebuild when you need it.



He built mine in my '06.

hahaha. . come on Harvey... you really think the tranmission is gonna go??

It might, maybe somewhere in my mind, I'm actually trying to tear it up so I can get it built!!. .

I finally got around to servicing the trans. the other day, with almost 50K miles in it with TONS of hard, heavy, and often overloaded pulling for hours on end. The trans. had almost zero clutch material on the magnet!... Just a light film. . I was actually shocked.

Seems that if anything is gonna give up with responsible driving, it will be the converter. . Been thinking of going ahead and swapping out for a triple disc Goerend. . still rattling that idea around. .

 

[HBarlow]

The 48RE is a pretty tough transmission to last even 50k miles behind a late model Cummins engine that jumps from idle to full torque of 625 ft. lbs. at 1500 or 1600 rpm and can tow 20k loads or even more for the brave but when you add even more hp and torque and pull trailers all bets (and warranties) are off.

 

[S.Morris]

I would run the nozzles without the smarty for the sake of conservation.



Should see a slight mpg gain this way under steady load conditions.

 

[Wingate]

I would run the nozzles without the smarty for the sake of conservation.



Should see a slight mpg gain this way under steady load conditions.

interesting idea...

 

[wcjp]

My ddp injectors came out as 83hp. I run the full Smarty at 1 or 3 depending on my mood. No soot accumulation on my TC or Jeep. Can't speak about the tyranny. Mine is manual and I roll into the throttle gently.

 

[NavyDood]

The 48RE is a pretty tough transmission to last even 50k miles behind a late model Cummins engine that jumps from idle to full torque of 625 ft. lbs. at 1500 or 1600 rpm and can tow 20k loads or even more for the brave but when you add even more hp and torque and pull trailers all bets (and warranties) are off.

I can agree with that if constantly towing near max weight and hot rodding around all the time. As for me, I have 174,000 miles on my stock transmission which has only had fluid and filter changes every 30-40K and my bands have never been touched. Approx 6000 of those miles are towing 20K and 10,000 of those miles are towing light to moderate. I don't race from stop light to stop light and when towing I am easy on the go pedal. My transmission still performs like the day I bought the truck six years ago. IMO, for the majority of owners, the life of the 48RE is all in how your treat it and maintain it.

 

[cerberusiam]

How does the auto trans. hold up with responsible driving?. . I am currently runnign the Jr. on Economy, did not like the performance setting for towing. .

Also, are the two hp. claims additive? Meaning, if the Economy setting on the Jr. is 40 hp, and the nozzles are 50 hp... do I really get 90 extra RWHP?

The first thing to remember is HP is tied directly to rpm, usually at max or red line, with these ratings. You will not see 40-50-or a combined effect at normal speeds. You will have more power from both the Smarty and nozzles but it won't be additive and it won't be anywherer near advertised for either.



A Smarty with a little added timing and fuel plus the nozzles is going to give you a good boost in the low to mid range rpms. TW peak is going to move back to something reasonable around 1900-2000 rpms and it will allow you to stay out of the 2rd event activation range with some careful driving. Adding a lower stall TC with better efficiency will really make that obvious and the power band much more useable.



The unfortunate side effect will be hammering the stock trans MUCH harder in its weak areas. It will last a while if it is in decent shape but there is simply no way around what the TQ is doing to the weal OE areas. Its not a matter if it will last, only how long it will last.



A lot will depend on driving style and loads. Much more will depend on driving scenarios.



Towing heavy on slower roads, secondary and streets where the speed limits are 35-55 mph is going to eat the front band and direct clutch pack FAST without intervention. Move the scenario to mostly on freeways at speeds at 60 mph and above will make a huge difference. The higher the speeds and rpms the better the clutches and bands will hold.



The slower speeds and constant shifitng is brutal on even tweaked transmissions if the bands and clutch packs are not higher quality pieces. You can get away with a lot more power on the open road.

 

[CKelley1]

i have more experience than most with what you are doing. the 50 hp nozzles and economy setting gives 90 rear wheel hp. to get rid of more in-cylinder egr you need to change the cam to a pdr or colt. the combination of the three will give 6 mpg and 300* lower egt. the turbo does not have enough air to burn all of the fuel on tow or performance setting. the oil has about a 75% reduction in carbon. you need to do two more things, one is easy get a turbo back system and the second is a little harder. let me explain the turbo has a solenoid on it that is fed a 5 volt modulated signal. with no voltage on it the turbo is set at 20 psi waste gate opening, if you have excess oxygen left over after combustion it forms NO the ecm monitors several parameters and sends a signal to the solenoid to just allow enough increase in manifold pressure to nearly have complete combustion therefore no excess oxygen. the ecm also limits the boost to a maximum of about 30 psi. we cut the solenoid into and modify it to make it a adjustable boost elbow. we cut the plug off of it and install a 145 ohm resistor across the wires and plug this back in the truck to fool the ecm into thinking the solenoid is still there. we set the wastegate opening at 32 psi. i will give you a better detail of how if you want it.

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[Wingate]

maybe I should just hold on to them( my 50hp. nozzles) until someone comes out with the Aisin conversion or the trans takes a trip to Dave Goerend...

I have tried for years to resist adding hp to my truck, and everything was going great until I loaded up Jr. and tuned up the trans...

The "new" feeling trans. is baiting me into a false sense of security. . I should know better. .

Thanks guys for all the input...

 

[CToney]

I would love to have 50 hp nozzles. The slight milage gain would be nice. You can always detune with the pod on the jr. I run perf right now detuned to 80 to save clutch an driveline.

 

[CKelley1]

the only good reliable useable upgrade to a auto is to upgrade to a g56.

 

[Wingate]

the only good reliable useable upgrade to a auto is to upgrade to a g56.

I sent an e-mail to Howards Allison Conversions... . but have not heard anything back yet. .

Tried running the Jr on Tow/Haul (aka setting #2)... hated it. . put it back on Economy.

 

[Prairie Dog]

What didnt you like about it?

 

[Wingate]

just felt like it (the programming) had taken away all the mid-range that I gained in the Economy mode... kinda hard to explain, but it just felt sluggish. . Drove it about 50 miles, alot of in town stop and go, truck felt slow to respond when I needed to speed up for a second to make a lane change ...

 

[AH64ID]

Looking at the Smarty Jr the timing is the same across the board, given the same revo option. SW1 is timing only, SW2 is timing and duration, SW3 is timing and more duration. The 40hp increase on SW1 is really in the mid range, 1600-2400 rpms it makes the added hp and tq, peak hp is only up about 10 (at least that's what my truck did on the dyno).

Smoke is one of those things that seems a little different on each truck, some have more smoke on SW3, but most claim SW1 smokes the most. I think it's because the turbo lights quicker on SW3.

I ran SW1 for 3 years, then SW2 for a year, and now SW3. Down low they are all about the same, and 2 and 3 feel the same until I hit a hill in OD, SW3 can pull a slightly bigger hill, but in 4-5th I can't really tell much of a difference.

The 50hp nozzles would put you between SW2 and SW3, and depending on the altitude you may be running out of air and have higher EGT's. SW2 was all my stock turbo could handle up thru about 5K feet, my Garrett can handle SW3 up thru about 7K feet.

If you want to see what it would be like then I would consider running these settings, SW2, TM2, TQ4 and see what happens. You won't have quite as much bottom end as you will with the 50hp nozzles, but the power once moving should be similar. I am going to guess that SW1 and 50hp nozzles would put you at about 340-350rwhp.

 

[Wingate]

Looking at the Smarty Jr the timing is the same across the board, given the same revo option. SW1 is timing only, SW2 is timing and duration, SW3 is timing and more duration. The 40hp increase on SW1 is really in the mid range, 1600-2400 rpms it makes the added hp and tq, peak hp is only up about 10 (at least that's what my truck did on the dyno).



Smoke is one of those things that seems a little different on each truck, some have more smoke on SW3, but most claim SW1 smokes the most. I think it's because the turbo lights quicker on SW3.



I ran SW1 for 3 years, then SW2 for a year, and now SW3. Down low they are all about the same, and 2 and 3 feel the same until I hit a hill in OD, SW3 can pull a slightly bigger hill, but in 4-5th I can't really tell much of a difference.



The 50hp nozzles would put you between SW2 and SW3, and depending on the altitude you may be running out of air and have higher EGT's. SW2 was all my stock turbo could handle up thru about 5K feet, my Garrett can handle SW3 up thru about 7K feet.



If you want to see what it would be like then I would consider running these settings, SW2, TM2, TQ4 and see what happens. You won't have quite as much bottom end as you will with the 50hp nozzles, but the power once moving should be similar. I am going to guess that SW1 and 50hp nozzles would put you at about 340-350rwhp.

I have almost no smoke on 1, If I have to get on it at lower RPM, theres just a haze that cleans up once the boost gets up and she starts pulling hard.

Altitude should not be an issue as we are at the 400ft. level here in Texas. Exhaust temps werent really any different that I could tell.

Maybe it was in the defaults of the different settings?? I did not change anything other than loading up #2... Made no POD changes. . etc...

I will try those settings and see what happens...