3. 8 mpg increase???????????? I would have to see that to believe it. If that is the case I will take one in a few months. It looks like it trades some top end power for bottom; this is the opposite affect that I want though. Is it really 2500 bucks? That would put this mod right out of my future. If I am going to spend that kind of money, it will be on a new pump for sure.
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565 hp with smoke control
- Thread starter Joseph Donnelly
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Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
A good chunk of that $2500 is labor to change the cam and lifters--a big job in the Cummins. See my article on the dowel pin and the page of pictures in TDR#33 for some idea what is involved. Another thing that adds a lot of cost is the purchase of a NEW marine cam, gear, bolt, plate, key, and set of lifters from Cummins. Only the special alloy (seems to be much higher in nickel and/or chromium) used in the marine cam has given us the best results on regrinding. Then there is the cost of the regrind and prorating the cost of development including a new master camshaft to be used by the cam grinder. The marine cam is the way to go because the gear is pressed on and bolted on also, so it won't walk off at high rpm. Furthermore, the cam core is ground and shot peened behind #1 journal so it won't crack off at higher rpm.
Now that you know it isn't cheap, feel free to contact me if you are still interested
Yep the cam ain't small block chubby, the chubby technology sure don't cross over, and the labor involved is way different. Just drop one lifter down into the oil pan, ruin another day, and then tell me how easy cam changes are.
Find that the couple lifters in the very back 
of the engine won't pull up into their bores, your back is sore, and you are sick of the whole thing--then tell me the installation is easy and should be cheap.
Is it cost effective? Well, it sure ain't torque plate pricing, power gains aren't huge, but ask the drag racers--when you want to win, and you want the best, you do what you gotta do. If we didn't have to pay Cummins their "competitive"
prices for the parts to begin with, the end product wouldn't be so high.
Now that you know it isn't cheap, feel free to contact me if you are still interested
Yep the cam ain't small block chubby, the chubby technology sure don't cross over, and the labor involved is way different. Just drop one lifter down into the oil pan, ruin another day, and then tell me how easy cam changes are.
Find that the couple lifters in the very back of the engine won't pull up into their bores, your back is sore, and you are sick of the whole thing--then tell me the installation is easy and should be cheap. Is it cost effective? Well, it sure ain't torque plate pricing, power gains aren't huge, but ask the drag racers--when you want to win, and you want the best, you do what you gotta do. If we didn't have to pay Cummins their "competitive"
prices for the parts to begin with, the end product wouldn't be so high.
who cares about the cost... ... ... ... give it some time... ... . this is like everything new... ..... only the big kids get to play right now..... well someday hopefully in a couple of years that technology will be here for the rest of us (me) little kids he he he
Bomb on Joe... we owe everything we have to the (multiple people) people who have got us all this power... ... .....
thanks you know who you all are guys
Brandon
Bomb on Joe... we owe everything we have to the (multiple people) people who have got us all this power... ... .....
thanks you know who you all are guys
Brandon
drawson
TDR MEMBER
Where I see this cam sitting in is the reduction of EGTs. When the bombing bug get you deep down inside and your EGTs are too high first is the bigger turbo exhaust housing, then 4" exhaust, then a bigger turbo (HX-40 or above), then a ported and polished head, and then maybe twin turbos. But this was where we had to stop. But the come along DDD (Diesel Dynamic & Donnelly) cams and we have one more step in our overwelming addiction.
Keep up the GREAT work Joe, it will be a while but soon I'll need this fix
Keep up the GREAT work Joe, it will be a while but soon I'll need this fix
I guess it depends on how bad you want those couple ft-lbs. Joe and Lawrence both have been at a HP wall, but they wouldn't stop there. So, now we have the next stage of 12 and 24V developement. I'm really surprised they're even selling them right now. As for the 2500 clams, VERY FEW of us are at this same wall and I hate to see people whine about price when these two men are allowing us keep making HP. They're the ones up front cuttin' the path. Take these people out of the equation and we would all be done at 400HP. Sure, I don't think this will be the 2nd step in the bombing process but how much is it worth to have that little edge over everyone else?
I am not saying this is useless....
I never once said anything bad about Joe or Lawrence. I know that without them we would be back in the dark ages. You people act like I said their work is dumb, I never said that. There are 6 people I credit most of our upgrades to, and feel that without them, we would have very boring trucks... .
1-Joe D.
2-Lawrence- DD
3-Piers
4-Bill K.
5-Mark of TST
6-Nowel (HVAC)
There are others that have given great work for us, and have not made too much in return, not as much as they could have at least.
Don't get me wrong, I am not downing Joe and Lawrence. I knew a lot of development (read money) went in to this thing. I figured that insted of buying the thing from Cummins, they went and got the size they wanted, and then took the numbers to a company like Isky for example, (then they just plug the measurments(size, shape, ... heres a lump... . ) of the cam into their machine and then here it comes in the mail a couple of days later. ) This would explain the price, nothing more needs to be said.
I admire the work that they have done on this, and the idea, just $2500 seems stiff for faster spool up, and cooler EGTs. It figures that this cam idea would be done sooner of later, just glad that 2 people from the list above are the ones that did, otherwise who knows how tested it would have been.
Andrew
I never once said anything bad about Joe or Lawrence. I know that without them we would be back in the dark ages. You people act like I said their work is dumb, I never said that
. There are 6 people I credit most of our upgrades to, and feel that without them, we would have very boring trucks... . 1-Joe D.
2-Lawrence- DD
3-Piers
4-Bill K.
5-Mark of TST
6-Nowel (HVAC)
There are others that have given great work for us, and have not made too much in return, not as much as they could have at least.
Don't get me wrong, I am not downing Joe and Lawrence. I knew a lot of development (read money) went in to this thing. I figured that insted of buying the thing from Cummins, they went and got the size they wanted, and then took the numbers to a company like Isky for example, (then they just plug the measurments(size, shape, ... heres a lump... . ) of the cam into their machine and then here it comes in the mail a couple of days later. ) This would explain the price, nothing more needs to be said.
I admire the work that they have done on this, and the idea, just $2500 seems stiff for faster spool up, and cooler EGTs. It figures that this cam idea would be done sooner of later, just glad that 2 people from the list above are the ones that did, otherwise who knows how tested it would have been.
Andrew
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The reduced EGT's would be a major benefit for me. Reducing EGT's enables us to add more fuel. The cam dyno charts are not changing the level of fueling and still adding power. The cam can add more power to your set-up by allowing you to add more fuel.
The obtainable gains are better than the chart shows if you can add more fuel to the engine.
Less smoke, reduced EGT's, ability to add more fuel... . all positives to me.
Of course the cam alone is showing increased fuel economy.
What else do you want?
Joe has real quantitive data from the R&D. Real data. Not technicolor dreams. Dyno proven data. It aint cheap fellas.
The return of the investment in time and money is something the 'other' cam companies have figured will never happen for them on a big enough scale. I for one am glad someone has a real WORKING alternative.
All this without worries of fly cutting pistons.
Don~
The obtainable gains are better than the chart shows if you can add more fuel to the engine.
Less smoke, reduced EGT's, ability to add more fuel... . all positives to me.
Of course the cam alone is showing increased fuel economy.
What else do you want?
Joe has real quantitive data from the R&D. Real data. Not technicolor dreams. Dyno proven data. It aint cheap fellas.
The return of the investment in time and money is something the 'other' cam companies have figured will never happen for them on a big enough scale. I for one am glad someone has a real WORKING alternative.
All this without worries of fly cutting pistons.
Don~
That's what a contract is for...
So you don't think you trust contracts?
Andrew
So you don't think you trust contracts?
Andrew
Say, i wonder what ol' Mitchell is running for a cam shaft,you think it's stock? maybe he'd be interested in buying one eh?--i'm sure with all the smoke he puts out,he'd want to reduce EGT's a bit 
The old adage rings true again....
"you wanna play, you gotta pay"! . I figured when I saw the price of it on DD's website that a good chunk would be labor-yes Joe I did pay attention to your killer dowel pin article in the mag even though it doesn't affect me personally . I am still interested-maybe even more now when you mention the fuel mileage improvements possible. Although I'm thinking now that I almost need to find a dead ISB to tear down and go through top to bottom..... man I dream way too expensive! Better work on the cheaper and easier stuff first-but when the time comes I'll be knocking on your door hoping I can pass the pre-sale screening!
Jason
"you wanna play, you gotta pay"!
. I figured when I saw the price of it on DD's website that a good chunk would be labor-yes Joe I did pay attention to your killer dowel pin article in the mag even though it doesn't affect me personally . I am still interested-maybe even more now when you mention the fuel mileage improvements possible. Although I'm thinking now that I almost need to find a dead ISB to tear down and go through top to bottom..... man I dream way too expensive! Better work on the cheaper and easier stuff first-but when the time comes I'll be knocking on your door hoping I can pass the pre-sale screening! Jason
That guy is nuts....
Everytime I see his truck in a pic, or a video, or someone mentions his name I just have to smile. That guy's truck is just outragious. That's more power then even I want, would be fun though Think of all the fun you could have on Saturday night, going down the main drag(in Houston=Westimer) with that truck? Maybe I do what that kind of power!
AJB
Originally posted by Cummnzpowr
Say, i wonder what ol' Mitchell is running for a cam shaft,you think it's stock? maybe he'd be interested in buying one eh?--i'm sure with all the smoke he puts out,he'd want to reduce EGT's a bit
Everytime I see his truck in a pic, or a video, or someone mentions his name I just have to smile. That guy's truck is just outragious. That's more power then even I want, would be fun though
Think of all the fun you could have on Saturday night, going down the main drag(in Houston=Westimer) with that truck? Maybe I do what that kind of power!AJB
<font size=1>TxDieselKid wrote:
<blockquote>"So you don't think you trust contracts?
Andrew"</blockquote></font>
There's is an old saying that applies here.
Patents are copied.
Industrial trade secrets are not.
Coca-Cola and Kentucky Fried Chicken are two examples of industrial secrets. Secrets are often imitated, but never duplicated. Once you put it in writing by going for a patent, you have just invited the world to copy your product.
My 2 reale (bits)
-John
<font size=1>Fixed a couple bad <html> tags</font>
<blockquote>"So you don't think you trust contracts?
Andrew"</blockquote></font>
There's is an old saying that applies here.
Patents are copied.
Industrial trade secrets are not.
Coca-Cola and Kentucky Fried Chicken are two examples of industrial secrets. Secrets are often imitated, but never duplicated. Once you put it in writing by going for a patent, you have just invited the world to copy your product.
My 2 reale (bits)
-John
<font size=1>Fixed a couple bad <html> tags</font>
You know, dropping egts and more mileage, and LESS SMOKE- I'm sure Mitchell will jump on it!
I volunteer to tow Dave's truck out so Joe can install a cam for him.
Sounds like a good street cam, but the hp numbers are a bit low for pullers in Ohio.
Gene
I volunteer to tow Dave's truck out so Joe can install a cam for him.
Sounds like a good street cam, but the hp numbers are a bit low for pullers in Ohio.
Gene
contracts are as good as the paper they are written on.....
I would take a friends word over a contract any day
since we have the best lawyers in the free world, we all know contracts are no good, unless you have the deep pockets to litigate a contract... ... ... .....
point being, deep pockets always win even if they lose in litigation
geeze I sound like marxs !!!!!!!!!
I am just happy because within some years now that the foundation is laid, I too will have a cam in mine... ... .
bomb on
I would take a friends word over a contract any day
since we have the best lawyers in the free world, we all know contracts are no good, unless you have the deep pockets to litigate a contract... ... ... .....
point being, deep pockets always win even if they lose in litigation
geeze I sound like marxs !!!!!!!!!
I am just happy because within some years now that the foundation is laid, I too will have a cam in mine... ... .
bomb on
Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
We didn't bother hooking up the tach pickup and Ihave not calculated torque from the curve. Looked like at least 1200 ftlb.
As for being "only" 565 hp, Gene, we weren't trying for max power (can't you tell, Sickly has been over 600 many times) but power with SMOKE CONTROL. Remember I was only making 35-36 psi boost and Sickly has seen way more with that turbo when smoke was not a problem! Bet there's more power lurking there
As for Ohio pullers making power, my spies told me Smokin Dave made a roarin 403 hp on the TST dyno
As for being "only" 565 hp, Gene, we weren't trying for max power (can't you tell, Sickly has been over 600 many times) but power with SMOKE CONTROL. Remember I was only making 35-36 psi boost and Sickly has seen way more with that turbo when smoke was not a problem! Bet there's more power lurking there
As for Ohio pullers making power, my spies told me Smokin Dave made a roarin 403 hp on the TST dyno
I understand that Joe, I noted it had good numbers for a street cam. Somebody else was wondering what he was running.
403? Cool! 50 more hp and I'm right there with Smokin Dave!
Who would ever guess 50 hp would be 150 feet at the pullin track?
TST Dyno? SAE or standard?? Same one Steve made 388 on, eh? Your close too Steve! You would think he had more than 403. Well, dynos don't lie, it must be true! LOL!
Gene
403? Cool! 50 more hp and I'm right there with Smokin Dave!
Who would ever guess 50 hp would be 150 feet at the pullin track?
TST Dyno? SAE or standard?? Same one Steve made 388 on, eh? Your close too Steve! You would think he had more than 403. Well, dynos don't lie, it must be true! LOL!
Gene
Dave's truck is also running some SERIOUSLY high RPM's as well..... I would be VERY surprised if he didn't have a custom ground cam in that thing.
The chances of an OEM cam making that kind of power operating at nearly 4 times its intended RPM are slim to none... . but you never know.
Matt
The chances of an OEM cam making that kind of power operating at nearly 4 times its intended RPM are slim to none... . but you never know.
Matt
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
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