6.7L Ford Issues...... Round TWO???

[HBarlow]

The Ram 4500/5500 chassis cab has been available for several years now and is a tested and proven foundation for heavy work bodies, ambulances, etc. I don't understand why corporate buyers buy fleets of unknown and untested Furds, especially if they are already familiar with the history of the Sick. Ohh and Sick. For.

Furd must sell them very cheap or buyers are too poorly uninformed to know that Ram builds a better product.

 

[JMetzger]

Harvey it is all about money, they buy the junk cheap & then declare the repairs as a tax deduction. No thanks I will keep my old reliable 02.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey it is all about money, they buy the junk cheap & then declare the repairs as a tax deduction. No thanks I will keep my old reliable 02.

Yeah, probably true but don't they care about all the lost time by the men in the field who are trying to drive that junk to get to jobs and repair whatever it is they work on? Perhaps at a major utility they don't care.

 

[rscurtis]

Harvey it is all about money, they buy the junk cheap & then declare the repairs as a tax deduction. No thanks I will keep my old reliable 02.

Is there that much (if any) of a price difference between the Ford and the Ram, or is their ongoing purchase just a continuation of "we've always had Fords"?

 

[MChrist]

I actually thought the Fords were more costly to buy... maybe I'm just thinking of the loaded King Ranch versions at $65,000 list. Anybody know what an apples to apples comparison would be between the Big Three, regarding purchase price for, say a 5500/550?

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I actually thought the Fords were more costly to buy... maybe I'm just thinking of the loaded King Ranch versions at $65,000 list. Anybody know what an apples to apples comparison would be between the Big Three, regarding purchase price for, say a 5500/550?

The stripped out (bare bones) model CC Fords are WAY cheaper on the sticker price than the Dodge was back in '07 when I last checked.



This was the reason that my company purchased an entire fleet of 50 + '07 Fords and have since seen exactly how cheap they are!

Every one of them have had cracks show up in the beds, had injectors replaced, and had two of them die completely so far. They have since wised up and bought a few '11 gassers, but are now being plagued with cracking beds, front end failures, and transmission issues!



Government/Homeland Security grants and such are the reason why small towns/cities/counties get STUCK with the Fords. A few $$$ cheaper on the sticker price and small budgets (and a bunch of idiot town government people voting for the things that will save money while they pad their pockets) are ultimately to blame #@$%!



Emergency vehicles have the WORST duty cycle of all and are more prone to failure IMHO. They may sit for hours, days, or sometimes weeks. They are then cranked up and run at full power (with no time for a warmup) and are expected to be 100% reliable. This is hard on ANY engine gas or diesel!



After reading on the subject of the newer Ford CC failure rates, It has me worried and I feel sorry for the cardiac patient in the back of an ambulance (powered by Ford) that has to wonder if it's gonna make it to the hospital!!

 

[HBarlow]

Generally speaking I have read comments here in TDR that loaded Furd pickups as well as GMs are priced close to $10k higher than Rams. I haven't priced them so don't have any idea myself.

I suspect Furd's commercial division is offering some of the big fleets that contract to buy dozens or even hundreds of Furd F-450 chassis cabs are offering them deep discounts to get those trucks out to be tested.

 

[Road Dog]

The Ram 4500/5500 chassis cab has been available for several years now and is a tested and proven foundation for heavy work bodies, ambulances, etc. I don't understand why corporate buyers buy fleets of unknown and untested Furds, especially if they are already familiar with the history of the Sick. Ohh and Sick. For.



Furd must sell them very cheap or buyers are too poorly uninformed to know that Ram builds a better product.

It's very simple: a company or government puts out an RFQ (request for quote) listing detailed specs and the low bid gets the contract. This is done by purchasing and is part of the capital budget. Maintaining the vehicles is a different department and budget. The buyer's bonus is based on how much he saves, not on the ongoing costs.



The real action is in writing the RFQ. A savvy seller will "help" the buyer write the RFQ (maybe in Vegas or Hawaii) so that only one seller (guess who) can meet the bid in a cost effective way.

 

[rwitt]

Yeah, probably true but don't they care about all the lost time by the men in the field who are trying to drive that junk to get to jobs and repair whatever it is they work on? Perhaps at a major utility they don't care.

Oh they care alright, but it has taken some time. I expect to see some Dodges in the future. Right now there's an F550 bucket truck that's been out of service for a month now for a new engine. The one before this one, they had to piece together a new engine, block from one place, heads from another. They've even decided to hang on to a few of the older 6. 0's for backup service. Whats strange though, is that the engine is the same engine put into the pickups, just different programming and turbo. No reported failures in the pickups at the higher rated power level.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

No reported failures in the pickups at the higher rated power level.

6. 7L Power Stroke Technical Info - PowerStrokeNation



Troll around here for a bit and see for yourself :-laf:-laf

 

[Simplysmn]

Wow n they say Dodge has troubles Wow We ain't got any troubles compaired to the Stupid Furd's Ford's better idea Pull the cab to work on motor Way to go Stupid .

 

[Wingate]

Just a quick update... mine is still running, but has recently picked up a "tremble" at idle... I do not know how else to describe it, other than a tremble. . has no CELs... but appears to be "cleaning exhaust filter" more often. It also seems slower about building boost when accellerating... That could be the heat here in Texas...

As s side note, I talked with a customer of ours today whos employer had also purchased several 2012 C&C F550's... they have one in the shop right now for a complete engine failure also... right around the 36K mile mark... same broken/fractured exhaust valves... .

 

[HBarlow]

Oh they care alright, but it has taken some time. I expect to see some Dodges in the future. Right now there's an F550 bucket truck that's been out of service for a month now for a new engine. The one before this one, they had to piece together a new engine, block from one place, heads from another. They've even decided to hang on to a few of the older 6. 0's for backup service. Whats strange though, is that the engine is the same engine put into the pickups, just different programming and turbo. No reported failures in the pickups at the higher rated power level.

I'm glad to hear that corporate fleet buyers are figuring it out.

It's not surprising to me that the same engine in pickups is okay. It was the same with the Sick. Ohh. The Furd engines are acceptable for light duty but when trying to haul a heavy F-550 around with a utility company's hoist, compressor, tools, wire, and everything else the field lineman requires or a heavy equipment repairman needs to do his job they are inadequate and inferior. Sick. Ohhs were okay for basic daily driver and towing a light boat to the lake on weekends. Those that were put in service towing heavy trailers failed at relatively low mileage and failed catastrophically. A light duty V8 diesel is a poor substitute for an inline six cylinder engine in a working truck.

If Furd would give up their repeated failed attempts at buying or building V8 diesels and buy Cummins ISB6. 7s in cab and chassis tune like they do for their medium duty F-650/750s and install an Aisin or Allison automatic they could save tens of millions in lost sales and paid warranty claims.

 

[AH64ID]

If Furd would give up their repeated failed attempts at buying or building V8 diesels and buy Cummins ISB6. 7s in cab and chassis tune like they do for their medium duty F-650/750s and install an Aisin or Allison automatic they could save tens of millions in lost sales and paid warranty claims.

I am still amazed they don't. . Like you said they have it figured out in the 650/750 class.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I feel that it would boost Ford's sales if they offered them with this from the start.



Just by looking at the number of Ford owners doing a Cummins conversion, I see that it would yield some serious profits and give folks a viable option for the die hard Ford man.



All of them have their perks, but I think that if they offered different engine/transmission options (similar to class 8), you'd see a lot of people with a Cummins under the hood powering the truck of choice.

 

[Wingate]

I am still amazed they don't. . Like you said they have it figured out in the 650/750 class.

Im not sure that Cummins would be allowed to sell engines to Ford for use in a product that would directly compete against the Dodge 4500-5500 C&C trucks...

I would think Dodge would have some sort of an agreement with Cummins to protect themselves from that...

Not sure, just spit-balling.....

 

[AEdelheit]

It's not surprising to me that the same engine in pickups is okay. It was the same with the Sick. Ohh. The Furd engines are acceptable for light duty but when trying to haul a heavy F-550 around with a utility company's hoist, compressor, tools, wire, and everything else the field lineman requires or a heavy equipment repairman needs to do his job they are inadequate and inferior. Sick. Ohhs were okay for basic daily driver and towing a light boat to the lake on weekends. Those that were put in service towing heavy trailers failed at relatively low mileage and failed catastrophically. A light duty V8 diesel is a poor substitute for an inline six cylinder engine in a working truck.

How did you come to this conclusion? Most failures Ive seen on the 6. 0's were in pickups that were rarely ever used as a truck, not 450/550's, or trucks that were worked. Really I want to know if you have any facts on this statement or your usual opinion with no proof?

 

[AH64ID]

Im not sure that Cummins would be allowed to sell engines to Ford for use in a product that would directly compete against the Dodge 4500-5500 C&C trucks...

I would think Dodge would have some sort of an agreement with Cummins to protect themselves from that...

Not sure, just spit-balling.....

I have wondered about that, considering the 650/750 use the industrial 6. 7 and it's ratings. Thou that 6. 7 would do great in a 450/550, or Ram C&C. It's a lower reving 6. 7, but has peak torque at 1000 rpms.

 

[MChrist]

AEdelheit, it's common knowledge. Just open a magazine, or go to any Ford forum. You'll see the same info there.

 

[AEdelheit]

AEdelheit, it's common knowledge. Just open a magazine, or go to any Ford forum. You'll see the same info there.

That the 6. no fails? absoluslty, not in any way arguing that, just curious how Harvey knows that the majority of failures are in 450/550 trucks? Not saying they dont but I have seen many F250 grocery getters fails and seen F550's with 150k that havent, so Id like to know if Harvey is pulling that fact out of nowhere of or if he has proof.

As per your magazine reference, have you ever seen a magazine working on a 6. 0 F450/550? All the ones I have seen were F250/F350's, probably not stock but still in pickups. Again not trying to say 6. no's dont have issues in any way.