6 speed Shifting problems CON OFE

[badams1]

Had the banks 6 shooter upgrades and a CON OFE Southbend clutch installed at the same time thinking that all things are going to be better. I have all the gages and 4" exhaust AFE you name it I got it on my 03 HO HD LWB six speed w/7;73/ 12,000 miles on it. The truck shifted good before the clutch etc. install and I have Royal Purple Syncromesh in the NV5600. Now after the S. B. CON OFE clutch the truck is a burden to drive due to you can't sit at a red light in neutral and push in the clutch and then grab 2nd gear and go as I could before. Now I have to force it into gear or wait untill everybody behind me is honking before I can get it into 2nd gear after about 10 seconds of clutch time. That don't sound like much but in Houston traffic that is a real problem. Also the transmission shifts are more resistant to go right into gear "not" like the truck was before. Called Southbend they said maybe pilot bearing and bad install. Took it back to the installer, he pulls the transmission and pulls out a perfect piliot bearing and carefully installs a new one. He is ****** and charges me $200. labor for wasteing his time. Truck is still harder to drive than stock and I am out here with no help from Southbend or any recourse. You know! "it was enough hassel to drive a six speed before in Houston traffic and now I just dread going anywhere. Think holding the clutch in at every red light is acceptable? Hell this was supposed to be more fun not a headach. Anybody else got this problem? South bend acts like DC. did about the lift pump on the 2nd gen trucks , you know! There is no other people having this problem and they just can't understand why I am. No help at all guys and gals so I want to know if it is true, am I just the only unlucky guy that has this problem? I don't care about lucky people with testamonials to irratate me with their good news just help me here PLEASE! Thinking about Red line but thought Royal Purple was equal but it is the damn clutch and I know it.

 

[RustyJC]

You're more than welcome to come over and try my NV5600 with the South Bend Con OFE. My transmission still has the factory lube fill, however.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Badams, your experience, both with the clutch AND the guys at SBC is pretty UNtypical - definitely sounds like an irregularity somewhere in the install - but very hard to diagnose from a distance.

 

[jackcaptjr]

For what ever reason the clutch is not completely dis-enguaging. You need to find the fault soon as you are working the synchronisers "real hard".

 

[Boondocker]

lube

Did you put the Royal Purple in at the same time as the clutch install?



I wouldn't rule out the lube itself. After a seminar with an engineer from Lubrication Engineers, a company that makes and sells aftermarket lubes, he basically said that they can't do any better than the factory offering for NV 5600. At 12,000 miles, there should be no need to change the fluid on a good shifting transmission.



Your problem sounds like it has to do with the synchronizers. The lube has a lot of affect on these.



I'd recommend that you drain the transmission, you can keep the Royal Purple if you don't want to dispose of it just yet. Go to the dealer and pay through the nostrils for the factory lube and put it in.



I know you're convinced it's the clutch, but you made 3 changes at once, that complicates the troubleshooting effort.



Good luck,

Neil

 

[opjohnny]

From what I have read here I don't think royal purple is approved for the 5600, just the Dodge oil and now Penzoil.

 

[Not_Agn]

Last weekend I installed a con fe in my truck. I too had the releasing problem, and shifting problem. I have 1000 miles on it now and it seems better. Still a little more difficult to shift through the gears, but I think that it is more of the lube then the clutch. I used the penzoil, I am going to try factory and see if it helps. Peter from south bend said that it was typical of not disengaging all the way until the clutch seats. He also said that he found that the redline seems to solve alot of difficult shifting.

 

[JaMan]

I am going thru the same thing, not terrible but harder than I want to shift, looking at good lube alternatives.





Jared

 

[badams1]

OK! is every body convinced that the factory fill is the best lube that I can do? The Royal Purple was changed months prior to the clutch r/r so the shifting must be associated with the clutch. More power surely did not cause this problem because I haven't really pulled anything with it yet. The truck was shifting noticably better with Royal Purple so for the sake of lack of knowledge I am going back to Dodge refill just because I am stupid so I'll play it safe. What do you guys think about the TDR side plate transmission filter? Seems like a good way to catch metal that is shed during wear but the six shooter probably shot the warrenty anyway. Keep responding and where can I get Redline or the pennzoil?

 

[RustyJC]

Well, you've just added a critical piece of information - that you changed to Royal Purple before installing the OFE, and that the transmission was shifting fine with the Royal Purple before the clutch change. That might serve to eliminate the Royal Purple as the cause of your problem.



It really sounds like the clutch isn't completely disengaging. This could be due to pilot bearing/input shaft problems (which you're already checked) or to problems with the clutch master/slave cylinder system or throwout bearing and fork. Did your installer machine the flywheel? Are you sure that the machining was done properly (i. e. , that the dimension between the friction surface of the flywheel and the pressure plate cover mounting surface wasn't changed and that the friction surface of the flywheel as well as the pressure plate cover mounting surface were held precisely parallel with the crankshaft flange mounting surface?)



Rusty

 

[badams1]

I am going to have to ask GOD ror those answers because all that I know is that I trusted the very reputable Diesel repair shop to do diligent mechanical work for the $. The problem is not terrible but annoying and I do think that the increased weight of the heavy duty clutch causing more spin inertia is probably the reason for the difference. If I hold the clutch dowm for 10 seconds before trying to go into 2nd gear or reverse then it just goes right in as before the install. I'll get used to it with time like many others. I am still waithing to hear where to get the best price for REDLINE! And more opinions on the TDR filter plate?

 

[RustyJC]

badams1,



As I said, you're more than welcome to try out my SBC Con OFE. I assure you, I don't have to hold the clutch pedal down for 10 seconds to get it in gear. I don't notice any difference in that regard between the OFE and my stock clutch.



I asked the questions because I ran into a flywheel machining problem when a local shop installed my OFE. They had to tear everything down and have the flywheel remachined (on their nickel, of course).



Rusty

 

[obie1]

I have used the Royal Purple for the last year (35000 of my 48000) adn have never had problems shifting. I too drive in Houston traffic.



The only differnece; I am still with the factory clutch, throwout etc. Might want to check the install issue. Not jabbing but the guy that did the work, has installed other Con OFE SB clutches?

 

[badams1]

Eurika! When I read the Redline website there was mention of the fact that a lubricant can be too slippery for synconizer geared unit applications. That spoke volumns to me as to the harder shifting change problem after the SB CON OFE clutch install with increased weight and the inertia associated with it. The Royal Purple is a PAO high grade synthetic gear lube that is very slippery. It was maybe ok in the stock clutch application. The factory fill or same thing Pennzoil syncromesh lube is not synthetic but a parafin based dino blend with friction modifiers is the best for syncronized applications. That is why DC does not recommend any other products as specified by their part #4874464 for the NV5600 6 speed. The syncronizers need a little friction to work better for shifting. Yea! I know a more rather than less slippery lube would seem right to me so I tried R. P. and would sware that I could tell the difference when I changed to Royal Purple. I am going back to factory fill and just change it every 30k miles. We will see, if it ain't broke don't fix it may be the case here now that I have shot myself in the foot, more later. :--)

 

[Not_Agn]

Switched back to mopar lube last night. Noticed a definate difference over the penzoil synchromesh. Much better now! Only complaint is the $12 per quart I had to pay. I think that is alittle ridiculous. I tried to get a fuel filter from another dealer and they wanted $45. Told them to keep it. Geno's for $12. They told me I wasn't the only on that has sent them back for being to expensive.

 

[redram]

Dude, The Mopar and Pennzoil MTX are one and the same... ... but you noticed a difference?

 

[carrk]

My six spd is shifting nowhere as well as the one in my '99 did, but it isn't that bad to where I am taking it back to the dealer. Stock clutch and fluid in transmission; in fact this is the only thing I am not completely happy about.



I have 16200 miles on truck so maybe it will get better with more miles. Best truck I have ever owned.