600 got beaten up pretty bad

[DGFoster]

I rode with a friend of mine to take his 5th wheel up north to the campground and drop it off for next weekend,well his friend with his brand new LLY Duramax with 90 miles on it cleaned the 600s clock,when we hit the Zilwaukee bridge the DMAX just pulled out from behind and was gone and it is bone stock and so it the 600,both 4X4 4 door trucks pretty close weight wise with both 5th wheels,I have to say I was impressed with it,but I also thought the 600 didnt run as good as my 555,not say that just to take away from the DMAX because it was stout,just that when I drove his 600 a couple weeks ago,it just didnt seem to have the power mine has,I gave his some advise and said Id take it in and see if it need a flash or something.

When we stopped i checked under the hood of the DMAX and it was stock from what I could see,and I also checked to see if the 5ers wheel barrings were hot as if maybe it was holding his back but they were just warm all the same temp.

Both 5ers were Newmars and looked pretty close to being the same. Just thought I would see what you guys think.

 

[Buzzer]

I think he needs to have the 600 checked out. Something isn't right there. The DMAX shouldn't have been able to pull like that on the 600. or the 555 for that matter.

 

[DPelletier]

590 vs. 600 ft lbs so I would expect it to be close. Close enough that weight difference in the units/trucks/loads would make a difference. Unless you weighed them both, you're guessing for the most part.

Gearing?

I've noticed that I have an advantage with some grades/loads, increase the grade slightly and the balance tilts the other way, steeper yet, balance shifts back, etc.

The road test I have shows both trucks identically equiped towing 13,000 lbs up hill. The 600 did 48mph and the DM did 36mph. Keep in mind this was a 520 ft lb DM, not the LLY release, but still, quite a difference.

How many miles on your buddies truck? still tight maybe?

He could dyno it to see if it seems right. Should be 260 - 280 RWHP.



Dave

 

[DGFoster]

The Dodge has 2200 miles on it,it is tight I am sure,the Dodge has 3:73 he said the Chevy has 3:73 but I am not sure about the chevy.

 

[Bertram65]

Pretty sure 3. 73s are the only gears you can get in the GM. The Duramax has proven itself to be a good engine, all the fears and speculation about the aluminum heads never came true. The Duramax has had very few problems, the only one that comes to mind is the injectors and GM seems to have steped up and is going to take care of it if the problem exists. The Allison transmission is probably the best automatic currently available in the light duty trucks. Stock for stock the new LLY should be able to keep up with the 600 and possibly beat it as it has the transmission advantage, which can easily make up for the HP and torque differences. I think the Dodge is a better package all things considered, but the GM is a pretty good package as well. I'm also talking stock trucks here not what can be added HP wise or what can happen when power enhancment is added, such as blown head gaskets and burnt transmissions.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The right % of grade, a hi-reving engine and a good transmission with the right gear ratios can be a hard combo to beat!

 

[bmoeller]

Could be the diffrence in programming too. Thanks to the EPA. Smoke control and emissions. Scrap the EGR, gut the cat and have a straight thru muffler, that would help to.

 

[DGFoster]

He dont feel bad,he loves the Dodge,but he is going to take it in,he told me he had a code and engine light come on 1 week after he got it and the dealer did something but he is not sure what,but he was only there 10 min. ,I think they just cleared the code from what it sounds like.

One thing about his dodge,if you rev it up while in park,it revs real slow,kinda like you are not fully pushing the pedal down,mine revs a bunch faster than his,so I think he has something not right with it.

 

[Turbo Thom]

Gary is right on the hi reving engine. Those V-8's really spin some rpm's. When I tow, the thing I watch is the egt's, no matter what the other vehicle's are doing. I can pull a 7 degree grade at 65 mph towing 15K lbs, but I won't. To much heat in everything. I'm on the road to impress me. Not the other folks.

Still there seems to be a little something wrong with your buddy's truck. Even though the throttle is electronic, the response is the same. Can Dodge fix it? I don't think the dealer is on your side. He's on the side where he spends the least amount of money from Dodge. I read where the new COO of Chrysler saved 20% on warranty claims. How did he do that?



Just a thought.



. . Preston. .

 

[jimnance]

I agreed that the DMax is a good engine, but they suffer from EGT limitations the same as us. In fact, my buddy with a chipped DMax has to get out of the throttle sooner than I do.



My chipped 555 and his chipped DMax run alongside each other when under similar loads. I probably have a slight advantage on the hills.



Empty he would kick my fanny 'cause I'm a stick.

 

[DGFoster]

We went to the dealer today and drove another 600 and there is a definate difference,the diesel tech said it sounded like some of the injectors were loose or defective,but anyway they are working on it,see what happens.

 

[miller_wb]

Couple of comments/opinions:



I believe that if you compare stick shifts, the Dodge has a clear advantage.



If you compare automatics, Ford and GM have the advantage.



My truck is the first automatic truck I have owned. I am still getting used to it, (25K miles so far). It just doesn't seem like all of the power from the motor is getting converted to forward motion until it is in overdrive. Just my opinion but there seems to be a lot of wasted RPM in the lower gears. If I could do it all over again I would get the stick.

 

[DPelletier]

DGFoster,

Don't forget to keep us posted with the results. I still think he should have had a slight power advantage, but in any case it should have been close.







Dave

 

[mattymac]

The 600's are outrunning the lly by a long shot and the 6. 0 in the 1/4 mile all in stock trim. I also rode in my buddies LLY and I was very far from impressed.

 

[Bertram65]

Just curious. what are you baseing those 1/4 mile statements on? Do you have any numbers for what a stock 600 and stock LLY runs? Where did you get them?

 

[tgrfan2]

My experience towing with a Dmax is that they are real strong screaming in 4th gear. but the Cummins will still be in OD. I have pulled with three and the downshifting on slight hills and overpasses drives me nuts. Give me an HO or a 12V with a #6 plate any time. Besides I'll bet a Dmax at 3000+ rpm is louder than my 12V at 2000 pulling the same hill.

 

[DGFoster]

Well he picked his truck up tonight,I guess they reflashed the ECM and he said it sounds different,he says it seems to have more power but he isnt sure. I havent driven it since he got it back,but will try it out tomorrow.

 

[mattymac]

Originally posted by Bertram65

Just curious. what are you baseing those 1/4 mile statements on? Do you have any numbers for what a stock 600 and stock LLY runs? Where did you get them?

Kieth Locklier has a post in here about a stock 600 4x4 auto running a 16. 3. Someone at the ford site said that kieth or someone affiliated with him also ran a 6. 0 and the best they could get was a 16. 7. Over on the dieselplace they say that the LLY's are running 17. 2-17. 3. I personally dont have any hard facts but all the LLy's and 6. 0's Ive riddin in were slower than any 600 ive been in. The LLY was definitly the slowest. These were all stock trucks at the time as well.

 

[DGFoster]

Well I drove it today and what ever they did @ the dealer did the trick,lot more power and sounds different also,I am impressed with the power compared to what it was before.

 

[lmills]

Originally posted by bmoeller

Could be the diffrence in programming too. Thanks to the EPA. Smoke control and emissions. Scrap the EGR, gut the cat and have a straight thru muffler, that would help to.

The 600's don't have EGR.