600 is smoking and knocking occasionally

[JChott]

On my first road trip with the new truck last Saturday, (picked it up last Monday), it briefly made a loud knocking sound accompanied by a small cloud of bluish black smoke. Pulled off the interstate at the next exit and the truck was missing as if one injector was not firing at all. Decided to head home and the missing cleared up a few miles down the road. When I accelerated up an on ramp a few miles later, another episode of knocking and a larger cloud of smoke (mostly bluish white this time). Continued slower down the interstate straight to the dealer. Was told to come back Monday. Between the dealer and home, it did the smoking/knocking thing a third time, enough blue/white smoke that I could not see the cars behind me. Each episode lasts a few seconds and by the time I let off the throttle, it stops and it's running fairly normal. Pulling hills gives the sensation that engine is cutting out a bit, not quite running smoothly.



Dropped it off at the dealer today and they cannot recreate the problem (so far) and say no codes have been set in the computer.



Has anyone had an issue like this? Oil level in the engine is normal and oil looks fairly clean (only 700 miles on the truck. ) It appears an injector is sticking open occasionally and dumping tons of fuel in. I am now concerned about internal damage based on reading other posts even if the dealer replaces injectors, etc. Guess I will just have to let them try to sort it out first and see what they do.



This is REALLY not what I wanted my first post to be about because I really liked how it was pulling these AZ hills before the problems cropped up.



Jim

 

[GWoody]

I saw another 600 do that after he tried a pressure box on it that wasn't designed for the 600, it had put out to much fuel pressure and had caused the pop off valve to blow, and even after the box was took off the valve was still letting fuel bypass resulting in low rail pressure which caused the truck to smoke and run rough occasionally, dealer replaced the pop off valve and the truck was fine. You might have a bad valve from the manufacturer.

 

[JChott]

Thanks for the info. The dealer was not able to re-create the problem so they gave the truck back this morning. After re-fueling, about 2 miles from the dealership, it started knocking again but did not stop this time. Gave off some black smoke, then engine stalled and would not re-start. Had it towed in, and they reported bad lifters and bent pushrods. (!!!) I don't think they found the root cause, which I suspect is too much fuel dumped while on the highway last weekend and the damaged parts are a result. Probably never know for sure. I'm waiting on them to find out what they will do to fix this.



Jim

 

[GWoody]

Wow, I'm really surprised it was something this serious, how many miles on the truck, keep us posted as to what they find.

 

[DPelletier]

Jim,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I would agree with your assessment about a likely bad lifter sticking open. Only a guess, but it would act as you've described. I would think you wouldn't be out of line requesting a brand new engine or even a different truck. Let us know how you make out. Only good news, I guess, is that problems like yours seem to be exceedingly rare so once you're on your way again you should be good! I know, probably a small consolation now!



Keep your chin up,

Dave

 

[JChott]

The truck had 500 miles on it when the first smoking occurrence happened and I was running empty on the interstate on flat road at the time. I'm supposed to hear from dealer management today as to what they are doing. I basically said as a minimum, I don't want that engine in the truck at all, as I can think of too many things that could be wrong at this point that could affect reliability down the line. I did some searching and this seems to be an anomaly for the Cummins like you said. I own an 01 truck with a Cummins and it's been great, just wanted more cab space and the extra hp. The new one (pre-smoking) was pulling these 6-7% grades here in Arizona like they weren't there and I was really looking forward to towing with it.

 

[JChott]

Update: The dealer, Earnhardt's Dodge in Gilbert, AZ, has stepped up to the plate and has ordered an entire new crate engine from Cummins. Cummins seems to want the whole package back to try to figure out what happened. I would have preferred a different truck, but they would not go for that. A new engine seems pretty good to me though as long as they take their time and install it right. I intend to try to find out from Cummins what exactly happened if they will tell me.



Jim

 

[DPKetchum]

There is a post I just read on a site(don't remember which one)Of a new 600 with 485 miles doing the same thing. He took it in and the tech and shop foreman went on a test drive. On way back it started running bad and smoking so bad the cops called a fire truck. anyway truck,cops,fire truck all ended up on dealer lot and truck stalled and died. Installed a NEW engine and tech decided to pull head from the old one. It had BLOW TORCHED a hole through a piston.

 

[Sledneck]

There is a post I just read on a site(don't remember which one)Of a new 600 with 485 miles doing the same thing. He took it in and the tech and shop foreman went on a test drive. On way back it started running bad and smoking so bad the cops called a fire truck. anyway truck,cops,fire truck all ended up on dealer lot and truck stalled and died. Installed a NEW engine and tech decided to pull head from the old one. It had BLOW TORCHED a hole through a piston.

How does a diesel have a lean down condition to burn a hole in the piston? I didn't think it was possible?

 

[gonzo2]

I would think that an engine switch out would be a relatively simple task. You should be cruisn' in no time.

 

[mberry]

It was on this site. The issue was that the injoctor had locked open and the resulting temperature in the cylinder had burned a hole in the piston. Lean conditions in a diesel do not produce heat like they do in a gas engine.

 

[DPKetchum]

It wasn't a lean condition. It was a RICH condition. Wide open injector.

 

[R.M.THOMPSON]

I have a slight but definate knock from an injector now and have been refraining from installing my fuel presure gage for fear of being put on the defense when I find a service dept. that will not say "ITS NORMAL FOR THESE ENGINES TO MAKE THAT NOISE" Just trying to help if anyone has this problem(injectors) and could be at risk for introducing foriegn matter into the unfiltered feul supply side of the system !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just carry a spare filter an forget about tapping the fuel lines until this injector problem is rectified.

 

[thejeepdude]

I have a slight but definate knock from an injector now and have been refraining from installing my fuel presure gage . . <snip>. . introducing foriegn matter into the unfiltered feul supply side of the system !!!.

How would using a banjo bolt to install your FP gauge introduce any foreign matter into the system? Tap in pre-filter and there's definitely nothing they could say. I've never heard of a dealer denying warranty because of a FP gauge.

 

[R.M.THOMPSON]

Hey Jeepdude,

The best place to tap into is post filter , that being the case , I would not want to be on the defense of how an injector got foreign matter in it when I was the last one to have the unfiltered fuel supply line apart. Yes, with the trade I am in and my experiance level , I consider it highly unlikely that anything is going to find its way into the injection pump , but as the way things are going lately with DC warranty issues , this would be a prime target for a DENIAL DUE TO CUSTOMER TAMPERING .

 

[thejeepdude]

Hey Jeepdude,

The best place to tap into is post filter , that being the case , I would not want to be on the defense of how an injector got foreign matter in it when I was the last one to have the unfiltered fuel supply line apart. .

OK if I agree with you thaat post filter is a better place, I will still contend that pre-filter is a lot better than no gauge at all. And with a clean filter is just as good as post-filter.

 

[JChott]

Just got the truck back from the dealer and all seems okay. They are going to give me an extended warranty, which I had requested, just in case something is not put back like original. When they swap one of these, the hood stays in place, and everything in front of the engine comes off, including AC condenser, radiator, aftercooler, upper crossmember, etc. Overall, I'm pleased with the way they handled it, just not thrilled that it had to happen to my truck.



Spoke with the mechanic as they were installing the engine and got to peek at the broken one. He said when he removed the valve cover, the little bridge piece that enables the rocker arm to move the exhaust valves was out of place, and the intake push rod was bent. Then when he removed the injector, the tip was damaged. At that point, he concluded that something was in the combustion chamber and requested that Chrysler approve a new engine. Probably won't get any more info than this.



Jim