7.3 powerjoke to dodge

[DWeiler]

ha! is this before or after you replace the lift and injector pump on the cummins?

I'll take the lift pump issues---Thankyou---Airdog and be done with it,VP not really too much of a concern---plenty are getting lots of miles,take care of these and you will still be messing with the 7. 3 long after i'm gone. . Come on up to God"s country in the winter around here and at -20C i guarantee you that your Ford 7. 3 won't start unless plugged in,hit-40C---good luck,we ran them from 97-05,never again. Once you hit 150,000miles they sure do get tired,always under powered,best mileage loaded/unloaded 10/12MPG,CPS /electrical gremlins,eat glowplugs/injectors. Heck even my newer 2007 Chevy 5. 3 gasser cube work truck would leave them in the dust "stock". I'v been driving the same bread route for almost 20 years,same roads/hills,150 miles a day and when the 7. 3s can't even maintain the posted speed limit and has to work just to climb the grade---not good. The Chevy will pull way passed the limit,loaded and if i take off to fast i can dump 1/2 dozen stacks of bread. Bosses decision to go the Chevy gasser route this time... . Again----Experience goes a long way,what next---- the 6. 0 is a even better engine DW

 

[MMiller]

I saw an early 80's Chevy that the owner painstakingly installed at 7. 3 in. I'd have a 7. 3 way before a 6. 0, a 6. 5, or a 6. 2, but then again, I'd take a VW N/A before all those too. Would I trade my old cummins, not on your life! I wouldn't mind owning my parents Excursion and running it until the 7. 3 gave up, pull it out and set in a nice 12 valve to wear the rest of the truck out. The Excursion does knock down low 20's, with more power and economy then my wife's durago. Hauls more too.



Michael

 

[JUeckert]

Wow, you almost never see trolls around here.

you can take that troll comment and stick it up your ***! in all likely hood, i have owned [OWN] more 5. 9 powered trucks,dump trucks, and pieces of equipment then most any one on this web site. it is also very likely i have logged more miles or hrs on 5. 9 cummins powered trucks, dump trucks or equipment then most any one on this web site also. now do you really think a person who's been a paying member longer then you, is simply a troll. you ever thought that person may just be the kind who calls things like they see them? but then again you would probably find it hard to believe i have been known to call b. s when i see someone spewing nonsense about cummins engines on ford or gm web sites also. wait a moment, i only currently own two ford diesels, and 6 gm diesels. i must be trolling those sites also.

 

[JUeckert]

I'll take the lift pump issues---Thankyou---Airdog and be done with it,VP not really too much of a concern---plenty are getting lots of miles,take care of these and you will still be messing with the 7. 3 long after i'm gone. . Come on up to God"s country in the winter around here and at -20C i guarantee you that your Ford 7. 3 won't start unless plugged in,hit-40C---good luck,we ran them from 97-05,never again. Once you hit 150,000miles they sure do get tired,always under powered,best mileage loaded/unloaded 10/12MPG,CPS /electrical gremlins,eat glowplugs/injectors. Heck even my newer 2007 Chevy 5. 3 gasser cube work truck would leave them in the dust "stock". I'v been driving the same bread route for almost 20 years,same roads/hills,150 miles a day and when the 7. 3s can't even maintain the posted speed limit and has to work just to climb the grade---not good. The Chevy will pull way passed the limit,loaded and if i take off to fast i can dump 1/2 dozen stacks of bread. Bosses decision to go the Chevy gasser route this time... . Again----Experience goes a long way,what next---- the 6. 0 is a even better mengineeek: DW

my 01 f450 has 346k, my 97 f350 had just of 295k when a employee bought it from me, a year latter he wrecked it with nearly 335k on the clock. my 02 f350 is closeing in on a 100k, one of my international single axle dumps is closeing in on 250k. these are the 7. 3 powered trucks that i own, and they haul much more then bread. my brother has 3 international roll back wreckers with 7. 3 engines, all have over 200k on them, one was wrecked with nearly 320k. he will be the first to tell you, the only diesel pickup he has had to haul more then a 6. 0 ford, is a 24v dodge. he had to tow his own dodge to the dealer, less then two years after he bought it. some folks have a tendecy to point out the issues other brands have had, but often forget the problems their own brand has had.

 

[Moose Truck]

"Show me a photo!"

"OK, Just show me a photo of a Dodge with a powerstroke, and I'll listen to you tell me how great that V-8 Diesel is. " That was me talking with a Ford guy at work, While I was looking at the TDR. He never did find that pic. Moose

 

[radcam]

you can take that troll comment and stick it up your ***! in all likely hood, i have owned [OWN] more 5. 9 powered trucks,dump trucks, and pieces of equipment then most any one on this web site. it is also very likely i have logged more miles or hrs on 5. 9 cummins powered trucks, dump trucks or equipment then most any one on this web site also. now do you really think a person who's been a paying member longer then you, is simply a troll. you ever thought that person may just be the kind who calls things like they see them? but then again you would probably find it hard to believe i have been known to call b. s when i see someone spewing nonsense about cummins engines on ford or gm web sites also. wait a moment, i only currently own two ford diesels, and 6 gm diesels. i must be trolling those sites also.

LOL a little full of yourself aren't you. What makes you think that comment was directed at you in the first place.

What you spew so vehemently is your opinion and as I have found in my years on this earth is opinions are like... . well you.

 

[DWeiler]

my 01 f450 has 346k, my 97 f350 had just of 295k when a employee bought it from me, a year latter he wrecked it with nearly 335k on the clock. my 02 f350 is closeing in on a 100k, one of my international single axle dumps is closeing in on 250k. these are the 7. 3 powered trucks that i own, and they haul much more then bread. my brother has 3 international roll back wreckers with 7. 3 engines, all have over 200k on them, one was wrecked with nearly 320k. he will be the first to tell you, the only diesel pickup he has had to haul more then a 6. 0 ford, is a 24v dodge. he had to tow his own dodge to the dealer, less then two years after he bought it. some folks have a tendecy to point out the issues other brands have had, but often forget the problems their own brand has had.

No flame intended----but you speak all these high mileage numbers---how about the repair list on these ones/problems,maybe you only have good luck with them,-----Sure our last 7. 3 (my old truck-spare)has 400km(250Kmiles)but heck just about everything has been replace on it a few times---might as well be new again----its in the shop this week---won't start or if it does----won't stay idling. They all have there problems which can be addressed,and have seen many Cummins with over 500k and still motoring---only one 7. 3 with 600k but on its second motor. PS Since you state so much experience with both ---What would you take for reliability/long run???----be honest now and yes i will respect your answer.

 

[Gweeds12V]

IMO, any turbo diesel in a V configuration (V/8-V/6-V?), is a compromise in efficiency.

Turbo diesels that have to have exhaust gasses piped from ea. bank of V to a common turbo, seems to me, is an afterthought.

I personally will never own another turbo diesel that doesn't exhaust all cylinders into one common manifold, then into the turbo.

That being said, I'll be keeping an eye on the new V/8 Duramax, that was just developed for the new 1/2 ton GM truck. They exh. from the topside of the heads, into one manifold, into the turbo. All hot exh. gasses travel up to the turbo. I like the

concept.

Ray

Isn't the new D'max coming out in 2010 for the 1/2 ton a V6?

 

[JUeckert]

No flame intended----but you speak all these high mileage numbers---how about the repair list on these ones/problems,maybe you only have good luck with them,-----Sure our last 7. 3 (my old truck-spare)has 400km(250Kmiles)but heck just about everything has been replace on it a few times---might as well be new again----its in the shop this week---won't start or if it does----won't stay idling. They all have there problems which can be addressed,and have seen many Cummins with over 500k and still motoring---only one 7. 3 with 600k but on its second motor. PS Since you state so much experience with both ---What would you take for reliability/long run???----be honest now and yes i will respect your answer.

total repairs on the 97 model, 1 water pump, 1 set glow plugs, one cps, one glow plug relay. the 02 model , 0 repairs. the 01 model, two injectors, 1set of glow plugs, one water pump, one glow plug relay. 99 model ih dump truck, water pump, cps. i have too many gm truck's, to waste time breaking them down, but other then the 96 model computerized one, they have treated me well also. my dodges. the 89 model, inj pump at less then 80k , the fuel shut off solenoid at around 145k. the 90 model , sold at 120k , had 2 leaking injectors that i didnt bother fixing, and had to fix the grid heater solenoids. the 91. 5, injector pump at just over 110k, water pump at 170k. the 96 model 12v engine in my gmc 3500, 140k on this one, water pump, fuel shut off solenoid. my 00 model 24v, 2 lift pumps, inj pump, and a hung up starter that could have turned ugly . 12v in my kobelco excavator, 2 fuel shut off solenoids[ last one caught fire] you think that couldnt have got ugly, think again! 12v in my case tractor, fuel solenoid. 12v in my ford dump truck, inj pump around 100k. 12v in my case dozer, 0 repairs. it would be interesting to know also, i have done the kdp fix on my kobelco and on the 12v i installed into the gmc. both were on their way put of place. as for my favorite pick, fix the dowel pin on the 12v ,and rig the inline pump to a manual control, i will take them over the rest . i'am pretty fond of my 05 common rail, but i dont like dodges/cummins stance on not ideling them. i have seen enough injector issues with others, to warrant keeping a close eye on mine as well . i have also seen some valve seat failures on these, that concerns me. i'am told that keeping the egt's down is the best way to prevent this, so i will heed the warning.

 

[JUeckert]

Isn't the new D'max coming out in 2010 for the 1/2 ton a V6?

all three are to install a v8 engine in the 1/2 tons. memory serves me correct, the duramax will be a 4. 5 . Radcam, if your troll labeling wasnt ment for me, enlighten us as to who it was ment for. if appologies are warranted, i will send them your way.

 

[radcam]

The OP... He posted one time on a subject that is sure to raise hackles on this board, and he's been around longer than either one of us so he should know what will happen.



I actually agree with you that people here have a tendancy to over look the issues with Dodge/Cummins trucks, yet they will cry to high heaven how crappy the others are.

 

[Dieselnut59]

The Cummins 5. 9 is not a perfect engine, as we all know. BUT, it is a helluva lot closer to perfect than anything else offered by any other manufacturer. It has had its issues, but they have generally been fewer and less costly than the continuing issues with the Navistar/Ford and Isuzu/GM engines. Ok, we had "killer dowel pins" in the p-pump trucks (an easy problem to prevent thanks to TDR) and the VP pump failures (also an easy problem to prevent thanks to TDR and a fuel pressure gauge). The Isuzu/GM guys have frequent turbo and injector problems. The Navistar/Ford guys have repeated turbo, injector, injection pump, glow plug, EGR, crank sensor, ECM and head gasket problems. If a turbo has to be changed in a Dodge/Cummins, it can easily be done in a couple hours. On the V-8 diesels, yea, right!! Cummins bottom end is WAAAAAAAAY stronger and more durable than any V design. Don't believe the durability? Just look at who most CONSISTENTLY wins the drags, pulls and dynos!

Yes, there were issues with failed lift pumps on the VP Cummins, but they could be monitored and easily fixed if the fuel pressure is watched. How can you monitor and predict an injector failure or turbo disintegration or ECM failure or crank sensor failure? I would say you are a lot more likely to be stranded in a Ford or Chevrolet than a Dodge and chances are, the repair will be much more costly.

Truck brand be damned, I will proudly stick with my Cummins. By the way, I have personally owned five and I have four in my company. All except my '03 have well over 100,000 miles on them. My '96 has 250,000+ miles and NONE of them have so much as had a starter, water pump, thermostat or alternator put on them. ZERO engine troubles in a fleet of up to nine trucks. One clutch failure, one 5th gear nut, one wiring problem and one automatic transmission failure are all that has ever crippled us/me. I have several die hard Ford loving friends who are finishing off the life of their 7. 3's... after that, no more Ford. Educated, informed people who depend on their trucks do not want the non reliable junk they will have with a 6. 0 or 6. 4 navistar/ford. By the way, one guy now has TWO 6. 7 Cummins to replace his 7. 3's. He LOVES them and he was "die hard" Ford.

It is a free country and it is your choice to have what you want, but the repair histories, drag, pull, and dyno winners speak for themselves.

 

[DWeiler]

The Cummins 5. 9 is not a perfect engine, as we all know. BUT, it is a helluva lot closer to perfect than anything else offered by any other manufacturer. It has had its issues, but they have generally been fewer and less costly than the continuing issues with the Navistar/Ford and Isuzu/GM engines. Ok, we had "killer dowel pins" in the p-pump trucks (an easy problem to prevent thanks to TDR) and the VP pump failures (also an easy problem to prevent thanks to TDR and a fuel pressure gauge). The Isuzu/GM guys have frequent turbo and injector problems. The Navistar/Ford guys have repeated turbo, injector, injection pump, glow plug, EGR, crank sensor, ECM and head gasket problems. If a turbo has to be changed in a Dodge/Cummins, it can easily be done in a couple hours. On the V-8 diesels, yea, right!! Cummins bottom end is WAAAAAAAAY stronger and more durable than any V design. Don't believe the durability? Just look at who most CONSISTENTLY wins the drags, pulls and dynos!

Yes, there were issues with failed lift pumps on the VP Cummins, but they could be monitored and easily fixed if the fuel pressure is watched. How can you monitor and predict an injector failure or turbo disintegration or ECM failure or crank sensor failure? I would say you are a lot more likely to be stranded in a Ford or Chevrolet than a Dodge and chances are, the repair will be much more costly.

Truck brand be damned, I will proudly stick with my Cummins. By the way, I have personally owned five and I have four in my company. All except my '03 have well over 100,000 miles on them. My '96 has 250,000+ miles and NONE of them have so much as had a starter, water pump, thermostat or alternator put on them. ZERO engine troubles in a fleet of up to nine trucks. One clutch failure, one 5th gear nut, one wiring problem and one automatic transmission failure are all that has ever crippled us/me. I have several die hard Ford loving friends who are finishing off the life of their 7. 3's... after that, no more Ford. Educated, informed people who depend on their trucks do not want the non reliable junk they will have with a 6. 0 or 6. 4 navistar/ford. By the way, one guy now has TWO 6. 7 Cummins to replace his 7. 3's. He LOVES them and he was "die hard" Ford.

It is a free country and it is your choice to have what you want, but the repair histories, drag, pull, and dyno winners speak for themselves.

Agree totally,,,and J-UECKERT thanks for the info----seem your 7. 3'are have the same issue as us in the past.

 

[Dieselnut59]

Yup, I will point out the problems with "my brand" but am proud to say they are fewer, further between and MUCH less costly than the "other brands".

Across the road from our company shop is the county road department. They have a fleet of 7. 3 and 6. 0 furds. Next to them is the Georgia state DOT. They have a mixed fleet of trucks which include medium furds (with 5. 9 Cummins) and light furds (appropriately with 7. 3 and 6. 0 "light duty" engines. . as rated by EPA, by the way), and a private steel business is on the other side of the county road department with a 6. 0hhhhh furd he cannot keep running, a 6. 4 furd that has left him stranded countless times and a 650 furd with 5. 9 cummins that has NEVER had any engine problems, only (furd) wiring problems. ALL of these places got the furd trucks because they were the CHEAPEST BID (makes you PROUD to be a furd guy, huh. . drive the CHEAPEST truck:-laf )...

Like walmart, it is the HIGH COST of "low price" when it costs more to keep something going in the long run... . The steel guy learned. He now has a 6. 7 Dodge 4500... The other two are government and will keep getting the "cheap bid" and the JUNK that furd provides for the CHEAPEST PRICE. Meanwhile, our (2) 1992, 1993 and 1998 Dodge/Cummins service trucks keep rolling while their NEW junk leaves them stranded! A FEW of the problems they have had (I know the mechanics): Blown head gaskets, failed injectors (once, ruining the entire engine on a 6. 0), bad turbochargers, constant EGR sooting problem, sending them into "limp home" mode, failed crank sensor, causing stalling, once in the middle of a busy intersection, ECM/engine communication problem (apparently a HUGE problem with diesel furds), transmission failures (an industry standard with diesel "pickups")... That is just a few I remember.

Another note: My local EMS had SO MANY PROBLEMS with failures with the furd diesels that they replaced the ENTIRE FLEET of 6. 0hhhhh furds (kept the still running 7. 3s) with CUMMINS equipped Freightliners... No more problems. It is bad to read about an ambulance stalled on the way to the hospital! Junky arse V-8 diesels! Cheapest is certainly not always best!!

 

[JUeckert]

radcam, i did not catch the fact the guy posted, one time and vanished. i [based on his join date and avatar] assumed he was legit, maybe just trying to stir the pot. either way it appears you were not directing towards me, so please accept my appology. dieselnut sounds as though you have your mind set on a cummins, thats your buisness, and a sound decision. i think it's safe to say i wouldnt have or have had so many 5. 9 powered vehicles, had i not believed in the engine. look at it from my point of view, if one of my dozer's is down, thats 75. 00 dollars an hr i'am missing. if my trackhoe is down that's just 120. 00 bucks an hr. a pickup on side of the road means an average of 40. 00 bucks an hr standing around. so you see, i know what down time can cost. i too had a dodge with a wireing problem, a 95 to be exact. between the fact of seeing a good friend of mine watch all his welding equipment go up in smoke on the 95 model he had for less then a year[ wireing problem] and the fact mine had prematurly wore it's front end out in typical dodge fashion, i unloaded it in just under a year. as for the light duty medium duty , the international engines are medium duty. they are graded under the same b life study as the cummins. the epa tag is an emissions rateing, folks might be interested to know my later model 6. 5 powered trucks carry a heavy duty rateing on them. i have a sweet spot for my gm diesel's, but i think everyone on here can agree, they are not medium duty engines, much less hd. as for the latest crop of ford diesels, the 6. 0 is what sent me back to buying a dodge in 05. thus far everything i have seen on the 6. 4 , it's had no more issues then the 6. 7. now as for digging up all the trucks you have seen broke down or heard had issue's, i promise i can do the same for all three brands, as well as a slough of medium duty trucks and school buses . you speak also of money for repair cost's, well fact be known , the injection pumps alone that i put on my early dodges cover the repairs i made to either of the 7. 3 engines i had to work on. the 24v, nearly twice as much. are the cummins engines easier to work on, cant argue with that. some more food for thought, how many folks out there in diesel world do you figure are really informed about the issues or possible issues there trucks could have? based on conversations i have with nearly everyone i meet at fuel stops, dealers, parts houses,etc; i doubt more then a third, turn the clock back 5 or ten years, likely less then that. now ask yourself this, wonder how many people have been bit by a kdp ,53 block, lift pump, v44 pump, or a cracked exhaust manifold on a 12/24 valve.

 

[JGamble]

My buddy has had his 02 Powerjoke for quite sometime, and I gotta say, with all the money I invest in beer to fix this d@mn thing, plz tell me you are joking. I have seen everything from a low coolant pressure sensor to a blown injector all within 2 yrs of my bud owning this truck. He wont give it up, hes a die hard Furd fan. And my sled is still running strong. Without throwing extra horse apples in the motor to make it continue prrr'ing. Why would you do such a thing? I mean, if your rich or well off, and you wanted to see how it would work, that would be ok. If your looking for the economical power, Cummins is the way to go..... IMHO

 

[Dieselnut59]

I suppose I should be fair and say The best possible combination is the Dodge/Cummins AND the TDR. Start with the BEST engine (undeniably), as good of a truck as any of them (they all have their weaknesses such as suspension, transmissions, wiring) and add a great amount of knowledge and resource through the TDR and you will have a virtually trouble free rig. It has thus far worked for me. Many of the problems you mentioned are preventable with a little knowledge of how to fix them. Yes, it is sad that must be done, but thankfully we have the TDR to turn to for this. Fortunately, I have avoided the "53 block" issue, (never have had a VP pump series truck) which would not be an easy fix and the transfer pump issue. I have installed several transfer pumps on 99-2002 trucks, along with a fuel pressure gauge. The gauge saves the injection pump if the failing transfer pump is replaced when fuel pressure becomes abnormal.

I solved my headlight switch problem by converting my running lights to LED, which I like better anyway. Have tabbed the KDP on several people's trucks and one of my own. I have also seen the damage one of these things can cause!

With that being said and these few tips being performed, I really do not think anyone, even die hard ford and chev fans can argue that the Cummins is the strongest built engine out there. It handles the torture of the pullers, draggers and dyno guys and puts up with more daily abuse than any V-8 diesel. Cummins engines are used in such equipment as tractors, skidders, forklifts, pump units, generators and loaders. Never seen a 6. 0, 7. 3, 6. 6, 6. 4 or 6. 5 in those, although International does make an awesome engine, the DT466, that is used in equipment and medium trucks.

Another scenario: Give a Ford guy a choice of engines, such as there is in the F650 and F750... What does he choose? The Cummins and sometimes the CAT. Rarely have I ever seen a "powerstroke" in those, even though it is the "base" engine. Yep, give the Ford guy a choice and he will pay MORE for the 6 cylinder Cummins (or CAT) over the standard V-8 Navistar. Medium trucks are built heavier and stronger, so their buyers choose an engine that is also!

 

[JUeckert]

actually toward the end of it's production run, the 7. 3 was also used in gen sets and pumps. v engines have rarely been used in smaller equipment , especially in the last 20 years. v engines are used in apps where absolute power is needed, very large equipment. cost and packageing are not important there, power is. the 7. 3 was intended as a automotive unit from the start, the 5. 9 was to be developed as a multipurpose engine. the 7. 3[444e] has been a computer controlled engine since it's introduction by navistar in 93'. for the most part , computer controlled engines were not needed in the apps you mentioned , this is why you will find 12v engines in stuff all the way to the end of the 90's. as for why the popularity of the cummins engine in those apps, what are the other options? detroit small engines were axed due to emission's, cat primarily keeps their engine's in house, fact is there smallest engine is now produced by perkins. john deere will out source some engines, but not many. international is the same, most their stuff is kept in house. cummins is a global supplier, they have no equipment or trucks to supply engines for, and there is no risk of having a conflict of interest. as for engines in a f650/750, cummins was the exclusive diesel [only] option for a few years, the past 8. 2,3208, ford 6. 6/7. 8 engines were all axed by emissions. when a suitable cat was developed, it was added to the list. also, the 7. 3 didnt find it's way until late in it's produstion. ford had wanted the 7. 3 option for a while, and when ford started being produced on navistar assembly lines, the dt466. [ which they still havent got]as for as chooseing between the cummins and the 7. 3 in a two ton, i dont prefer either . both are too under powered for my needs, all 4 of my current single axle trucks are 466 powered, as well as 1 tandem. both the 7. 3 and 5. 9 are entry level mediums at best.

 

[Dieselnut59]

I suppose we can agree that the 466 is a good engine. The 8. 3 Cummins is similar. Of the "lighter" medium engines, the only one similar in design is the 5. 9. I am just not a fan of a "V" engine when inline 6's will do the job as well or better and at a lower RPM. Some people are fan of higher revving, higher horsepower engines and "V" engines are great there. I prefer an engine with low rpm grunt (torque) which an inline 6 offers and that is why they work so well in equipment, trucks and tractor trailer rigs. To their credit, "V" engines do perform well in high speed applications like gensets and pump units, but, as you mentioned, their packaging does not dictate this well.

As long as different people have different opinions, there will be different choices. I prefer an inline engine. They generally get the job done equally as well with a smaller displacement and less fuel. The awesome one I am excited about is the 3 liter dual turbo inline 6 that BMW has just released in the states. They even advertise it as "The power of a V-8 and the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder". That about sums up my love for the inline engines!

 

[JUeckert]

back in the mid 80's my mother had a lincoln cont with a bmw diesel in it, a slant 6 cyl, with about 2. 4 litre's, very excellent running car. i briefly had a ford dump with the 8. 3 myself, had issue's with where the air compressor bolted to the engine, it cracked. i was told this was a weak design back then. my best friend is a certified cummins mechanic, who began training exclusively on the 4b/6bt and 6ct [8. 3] engine's back in 86', and went up to the earliest days of the common rail. he told me back then that the b series were much more reliable then the c series engines. hence the reason i unloaded the 8. 3 early. went to dt 466 power for the most part after that, in 11 years of owning them, the only time i put a wrench to one was for a water pump. IH also had 5. 9 engine called the dt360, a sleeved design, that weighed in close to 1400lbs. had it not been for the fact it was a bit larger and heavier then the cummins 5. 9, it would have made an excellent pickup engine.