75k miles engine toast?

[Mhannink]

When I read the first post my thought was a "dusted" engine rather than a blown injector.



What kind of air filters does he run? How often is it changed? Does he drive in very dusty conditions?



Just another thing to think about besides injectors.



Ryan

i think they where fram untill recently and then it was a k&n drop in. they where always changed often.



as mentioned in earlier posts about idle times this truck idles a lot. idles every start up for some time not really warm but idles for a while. also it idles a while before shutdown. lastly its spent many nights idleing for hours nearly double digits amount of hours to keep those sleeping in the cab warm.

 

[JCasper]

i think they where fram untill recently and then it was a k&n drop in. they where always changed often.



as mentioned in earlier posts about idle times this truck idles a lot. idles every start up for some time not really warm but idles for a while. also it idles a while before shutdown. lastly its spent many nights idleing for hours nearly double digits amount of hours to keep those sleeping in the cab warm.

I wonder if he has "washed" the cylinder, like in the pic posted before.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

this guy had about 35-40% idle time which means that the truck was idled 35-40% of the life of the truck, anything over 20% is high

Idle time by Dodge's definition is not idle time by normal peoples' definition! Most would consider idle as being when you're foot is off the throttle and vehicle speed = 0mph. But the Dodge ECM records all time with your foot off the throttle whether descending a long grade, pushing in the clutch to shift, decelerating in traffic, etc. And of course those commuting in heavy traffic have a lot of idle time, but it's mixed with frequent acceleration in stop & go traffic, canceling out any harmful effects of "extended" idling.

As far as that engine being damaged by extended idle I have a hard time believing that. . . looks like excessive EGTs to me. Cold cylinder temps from extended idle doesn't melt pistons and score cylinders.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

from experience mine barely ran rough and before i got it pulled over she was done, egts were never hot, had a slight miss while cruising 75mph, no notice in power loss...

That's the achilles heel of the HPCR system. . . when an injector sticks open it basically turns into a blowtorch.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

most of the people around here either farm or ranch so they will let their trucks sit there while they are checking pivots or cattle.



the problem with idleing is that carbon gets into the injectors and causes them to stick open, and usually only happens on high idle time trucks and I have done I think 4-5 trucks with the same problems, I bet if you could look at your buddies idle times its at least 30%.



yes they do record some of that stuff but they are actually looking at the load on the engine not what your doing, I have drove probably over 200 miles with the scanners hooked to different trucks watching the load percentages and it all just depends on the load. Ideling it about 1,000 rpms is always a plus, I do believe that is the range that you start to put an actual load on the engine.

 

[sag2]

The compression test is done with Miller 9007. But as I have posted before no technician is going to do a compression test. It takes too long as the rockers have to be reinstalled and then removed again to remove the tool and reinstall the injector. They should be using the 9007 and doing a leak down. Gives same/better result and is much faster.

Is it at Reno Dodge or Carson Dodge? I have been to class with techs from both stores and they know what they are doing. Most times if it smokes the cylinder it will knock and not smoke. As Ryan said it sounds more like a dusted engine if it is not knocking. I suppose it could have a hole in the piston, but not likely.

Did they indicate why they say nothing wrong?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

most of the people around here either farm or ranch so they will let their trucks sit there while they are checking pivots or cattle.



the problem with idleing is that carbon gets into the injectors and causes them to stick open, and usually only happens on high idle time trucks and I have done I think 4-5 trucks with the same problems, I bet if you could look at your buddies idle times its at least 30%.



yes they do record some of that stuff but they are actually looking at the load on the engine not what your doing, I have drove probably over 200 miles with the scanners hooked to different trucks watching the load percentages and it all just depends on the load. Ideling it about 1,000 rpms is always a plus, I do believe that is the range that you start to put an actual load on the engine.

That makes sense mopartech, I can see injector carbon buildup potentially causing problems, and I do know people have a habit if letting the truck run, for no reason at all really. . . only takes a second to shut it off and restart it. Maybe they're doing it in cold weather, leaving them run to keep warm, which would take a toll if the engine wasn't fully warmed up to begin with.



The reason I jumped on the idle thing though is because I've read of case after case where members on this board are hassled or denied warranty because of "excessive idling" when they use their truck like normal people and do not make a habit of idling. . . all because of the way the ECM records it.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Sorry I totally forgot about the compression test, I have done probably 12 compression tests on them, every engine that needed replaced had to have the compression checked, it isn't that hard to do, that saves a lot of time to find a cylinder instead of pulling the head. I will try to find the specs in my paperwork.



CYLINDER COMPRESSION PRESSURE

The results of a cylinder compression pressure test can be utilized to diagnose several engine malfunctions.



Ensure batteries are completely charged and the engine starter motor is in good operating condition. Otherwise, the indicated compression pressures may not be valid for diagnostic purposes.



Disconnect the fuel inlet line to the fuel filter housing. Plug the fuel line from the fuel tank.

NOTE: Failure to plug fuel line will result in fuel leak.



Remove fuel transfer pump relay from PDC.

Start the engine and idle until the engine stalls (runs out of fuel).

Remove the cylinder head cover. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD COVER(S) - REMOVAL)

Remove the cylinder head cover carrier gasket. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD COVER(S) - REMOVAL)

Remove the high pressure fuel line between the cylinder head and fuel rail for the cylinder to be tested. Use tool# 9011 to cap this fuel rail on the cylinder being tested.

Remove the fuel connector tube nut and fuel connector tube.

Remove the exhaust rocker lever.

Use Tool 9010 to remove the injector and copper sealing washer.

Install the exhaust rocker lever and torque to 36 N·m (27 ft. lbs. ).

Cover the remaining rocker levers with clean shop towels to prevent any oil splatter under the hood.

Place a rag over the compression test tool fitting. Crank the engine for 2-3 seconds to purge any fuel that may have drained into the cylinder when the injector was removed.

Connect the compression test gauge.

Crank the engine for 5 seconds and record the pressure reading. Repeat this step three times and calculate the average of the three readings.

NOTE: The minimum cylinder pressure is 350 psi. Cylinder pressure should be within 20% from cylinder to cylinder.



Combustion pressure leakage can be checked if cylinder pressure is below the specification. Perform the leakage test procedure on each cylinder according to the tester manufacturer instructions.

Upon completion of the test check and erase any engine related fault codes.

 

[Motorhead]

i would bet he lost an injector and burned a hole through a piston..... , been there done that:-laf

I second that.

 

[Mhannink]

ok so there was a lot to read there so i may not repsond to all of the posts. anyways my buddy got the truck back today because they say there is nothing out of the ordinary and that they will not compression check the engine beacuse they cant. i see that as we dont have the tools and we dont care.



all these reasons seem legit as to why this truck is having a problem. my problem is getting the dealership to see that and work on it. we took the truck back and are going to another shop.

 

[MColavecchio]

This place is about 60 miles from Modesto. Go to Cummins.com for service locator information. This is a factory Cummins dealer - they train Dodge techs. I have found that must Dodge dealerships don't have the experience or expertise in diesels that the Cummins folks do.





CUMMINS WEST, INC. (2047)

14775 WICKS BLVD. , SAN LEANDRO, California 94577, United States



Phone510) 351-6101

Fax510) 357-3432

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Well all that shows you is that they don't know how to work on diesels, if they don't have the right equipment they don't have the right tech's, I was the only diesel tech at my show and we had two of almost every test tool, and I have all the good ones still in my box LMAO

 

[betterthanstock]

The easiest way to check for a bad piston is to open the oil fill cap at idle. One melted piston will produce puffs (possibly of white smoke) thru the cap. All cylinders equally worn by dust sucked in thru a poor air filter, will produce a more uniform blowing.

I just re-checked my engine (with only 61K) and there is zero blowing. Some might argue that if you plug the lower vent hose, there will be more. But air takes the path of least resistance, so it will blow mostly thru the oil cap, rather than thru the hose, but you can always stick a rag into that hose.

 

[Mhannink]

well like i said there is constant blowby coming through so i dont think its a melted pistions im thinking its bad rings how they went bad i dont know.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

I bet he melted a piston, thats the most common thing, he has a better chance of breaking a rod than rings and breaking a rod is almost impossible in a stock cummins

 

[MasterChief]

Isn't damage like this covered under the 100K warranty?

 

[Mhannink]

yeah it is but dodge says nothing is wrong

 

[Whiskey]

I think that you have a broken oil ring,by the way you have describe your conditions!!



whiskey

 

[CaseySmith]

I was once told that dodge stands for



Died On Donner Going East



I guess it fits kinda in this situation.

 

[Mhannink]

ROTFLMAO that was too good